Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

end of the road · 04-10-2023 10:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192247#Comment_121192247

oh but the french can stop a lot of them, it would be impossible for any state to stop every single one.

however, france quite rightly are simply choosing not to stop as much as they could, as why should they help a country who have abused them and their people and blamed them for britain's failures.

france are simply seeing britain coming with the money and taking it, and who the hell can blame them?

france an aweful state? are you having a laugh? if you think france is an aweful state then i would suggest you obviously don't listen to the news.

Peregrinus · 04-10-2023 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192388#Comment_121192388

France is not a prison, and people are free to leave if they wish. But Francis McM buys into the belief, widespread in the UK, that France has a some kind of duty to keep people from entering Britain by preventing them from leaving France, because apparently when Brexiters demanded that the UK "take back control" of their borders they actually meant that the UK would rely on France to control the UK's borders. And the French are, of course, bound by the wishes and beliefs of Brexiters because they are, of course, only French.

end of the road · 04-10-2023 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192236#Comment_121192236

very true and quite correct ultimately.

end of the road · 04-10-2023 10:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192254#Comment_121192254

it is the fault of farage, the tory party, the far right element of the media, and those of the british public that voted for bad decisions that the uk is the way it is, nobody else.

britain actually got more back then it put in, money which is now lost and can't be replaced.

Seth Brundle · 04-10-2023 10:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192247#Comment_121192247

The French cannot even stop thousands of poor refugees leaving their shores in dangerous little rubber boats,

Why would the French try and stop them if they are determinded to go somewhere else?

France is such an awful state that the British are having to give them hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the refugees leaving France for England. Quote " March 10 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said on Friday that Britain will give France 480 million pounds ($577 million) over three years to invest in police, technology and intelligence to help reduce the number of asylum seekers arriving on English shores in small boats from France."

Can you quote where Reuters said that France were in such a bad way?

England asked the French for help rather than your assertion that France is in a bad way and needs help. It is because Britain are in a bad way and don't want to process these people on its own shores that they've effectively outsourced the task.

Seth Brundle · 04-10-2023 10:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192332#Comment_121192332

I didn't say that at all. Maybe re-read what I did post!

end of the road · 04-10-2023 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192332#Comment_121192332

britain chose itself to privatize it's rail system to try and get out of paying for it, and now it pays multiples of the cost, it's own fault.

britain was happy to take advantage of cheap labour and supported it as it meant not having to pay decent wages, it's own fault.

britain's fishing industry would be long dead if it wasn't for access to other markets and waters.

regulation is necessary to protect the people, and britain often voted for and even suggested such regulations.

no, ultimately the reason for brexit was a tax dodge, nothing more.

Quitelife · 04-10-2023 10:24am

On a couple of recent work trips to Manchester I couldnt get over the poverty in parts of Manchester & how poor people are even working , so many people were using foodbanks to get by , if they lost a tenner it would be a life changing event,

On a vist to Tottenham in London , walking up the high road near Spurs ground on a non match day was scary with drug runners at every corner flashing zombie knifes watching for addicts or people who owe them money , talbot street would be super safe compared to it. You are asking to be mugged or stabbed if you went out at nighttime.

I worked In UK in 80/90s and its definetly a far poorer & less safe place for many these days.

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192466#Comment_121192466

It is said that London in the 50's was 98% white British, in the 1980s 80% white British, and now 36%. I think the population of London has increased by 2 million this century, mostly immigrants - that they know of.

I agree that in many ways Britain was better in the late 1980s 30 years later, after having been the EUs second biggest net contributor for those 30 years. It is a shocking inditement of the EU that it would do that to its second biggest net contributor.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192455#Comment_121192455

Because the little rubber boats are so dangerous, and people have been drowned. If conditions were better in France, then those thousands of poor refugees may not risk their lives ( some drown every year ) trying to get to Britain. Ever see the pictures of the dis-organized and dirty tents and camps where refugees are on the coast of France?

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-give-france-480-million-pounds-help-stop-small-boat-crossings-2023-03-10/

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192457#Comment_121192457

oh, you just quoted Basil Fawlty for the fun of it?

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 10:47am

On things like literacy and education the UK is still ahead of us.

If you google literacy in Ireland, it says "The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information. 25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy."

In the UK, the subject of this thread, it is not as bad, so at least in that respect they are not as much of a third world country as us.

04-10-2023 10:50am

Go to any town in Tipperary that isn’t Cashel or Cahir and you’ll see third world vibes.

Fix our own problem’s before looking further afield.

Seth Brundle · 04-10-2023 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192497#Comment_121192497

Where does that article state that "France is such an awful state that the British are having to give them hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the refugees leaving France for England"?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192498#Comment_121192498

What?

I pointed out how for a long time there has been an air of intolerance towards foreigners within British culture. I could have linked to Alf Garnett or the many others but less people would known them! Do you disagree with this perspective and if so, then actually say so!

Slightly Kwackers · 04-10-2023 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192497#Comment_121192497

I don't think you have any understanding of why the refugees go to Britain. It isn't because of poor conditions in France by any means.

Britain pays France to try to control their borders, the UK is no more capable of doing it now than they were in the EU. The difference is that France has no need to bother what Britain does with "asylum applicants" now as they cannot become citizens of an EU country because of UK government incompetence.

The clue is in their inability to set up customs to inspect imports.

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192677#Comment_121192677

It must be quite embarrassing for the EU and France to have so many thousands of refugees in dirty canvas camps trying to get in the the UK, and risking their lives to do so. Even in the USA, conditions south of the US / Mexico border are probably not as bad, and people trying to cross that border at least seldom drown.

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192667#Comment_121192667

Read my post again. I gave the quote in italics, and after the word Quote.

The French cannot even stop thousands of poor refugees leaving their shores in dangerous little rubber boats, never mind care about intercepting Russian jets off our west coast. France is such an awful state that the British are having to give them hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the refugees leaving France for England. Quote " March 10 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said on Friday that Britain will give France 480 million pounds ($577 million) over three years to invest in police, technology and intelligence to help reduce the number of asylum seekers arriving on English shores in small boats from France."

Seth Brundle · 04-10-2023 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192717#Comment_121192717

Where are you getting the information that "France is such an awful state that the British are having to give them hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the refugees leaving France for England"?

Are you quoting Sunak, Reuters or making it up because either way, it is not true?

In terms of your post, there are no italics, nor have you mentioned why "France is such an awful state"...

What you seem to completely misunderstand is that the French can do nothing to stop someone who wishes to leave France, no matter how that person chooses to leave. An asylum seeker in France looking to travel to the UK is, under International Law, perfectly entitled to do so despite the nonsense about safe routes from Braverman et al. The French would be wrong to treat asylum seekers as prisoners and refuse to let them leave France.

What the UK are paying for is for the French to take over UK Border Control because the UK simply has not made a proper attempt (despite the hyperbole) at building their own border control points.

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192463#Comment_121192463

I do like your little rants, they are so uneducated it makes me chuckle.

You may want to look up the EU rail directives and how they are currently affecting Ireland, after Ireland's Derogation for the last god knows how long. I have absolutely no idea what you mean by getting our of paying for it, who the **** do you think pays for the rail network?

yagan · 04-10-2023 12:47pm

Allowing failed asylum seekers leave the EU for Britain voluntarily is cheaper than deportation.

Plus it's far easier to disappear into respective emigre communities once landed in Britain whereas in France having to carry ID is a legal requirement.

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192667#Comment_121192667

its kind f ironic on a thread that has pretty significant tones of xenophobia, the Brits are being singled out for being Xenophobic, no doubt by someone who has never actually lived in the UK, or anywhere else.

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193023#Comment_121193023

no one is allowing anyone to leave anywhere.

The conversations going on between France and Britain are more or less the same as those going on between France and Italy and France and Spain.

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192998#Comment_121192998

I meant to say "double quotation marks", not "italyics".

Same difference, as it is after the word quote.

The French cannot even stop thousands of poor refugees leaving their shores in dangerous little rubber boats, never mind care about intercepting Russian jets off our west coast. France is such an awful state that the British are having to give them hundreds of millions of pounds to try to stop the refugees leaving France for England. Quote " March 10 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said on Friday that Britain will give France 480 million pounds ($577 million) over three years to invest in police, technology and intelligence to help reduce the number of asylum seekers arriving on English shores in small boats from France."

Britain giving France 480 million pounds ($577 million) over three years to invest in police, technology and intelligence is a lot of money. It is a pity that France has those dirty canvas tented slums, the likes of which you would only see in deprived parts of Africa and the middle East. Imagine risking you life to leave that?

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193073#Comment_121193073

People are not dying though on the border on the internal borders within the EU, they are dying on the border trying to leave the EU.

According to the International Organization for Migration, 64 migrants have drowned in the English Channel trying to reach the UK between 2018 and 2023.

Imagine what it must be like in France to struggle without access to clean water, sanitation, hygiene and electricity. Imagine how such conditions can lead to an multitude of health issues.

yagan · 04-10-2023 1:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193073#Comment_121193073

Talks between EU members on illegal immigration are via the EU, whereas illegal immigrants leaving for Britain is not an EU issue. Since Brexit Britain is effectively a dumping ground.

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 1:22pm

One thing about the UK is that literacy rate is 99%.

https://defradigital.blog.gov.uk/2022/09/21/recognising-the-power-of-literacy-when-designing-services/

https://countrymeters.info/en/United_Kingdom_(UK)#:~:text=Literacy%20rate%20for%20adult%20female,youth%20literacy%20rate%20is%2099%25.

Here in Ireland, iIf you google "literacy in Ireland", it says "The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information. 25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy."

At least in the UK, the subject of this thread, it is not as bad, so at least in that respect they are not as much of a third world country as us.

Slightly Kwackers · 04-10-2023 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192712#Comment_121192712

If they have committed no crime, why disturb them?

Maybe EU countries value humanity above what some place looks like. It isn't France that wants to opt out of the ECHR you know?

I would imagine that just leaving them reduces the cost of court cases and eventually they will no doubt arrive at their desired destination.

France has a duty of care if it takes someone into custody or indeed if it does anything to condone or encourage the camps. It cannot be very popular with the French anyway as while in the EU the blame for the migrant crisis was put squarely on the EU and France in particular. It must be nice to see the chickens roosting and getting paid for it too.

The migrants were and are a Tory PR exercise.

One of the attractions of HS2 when Stoke put in for a station were the number of extra people it would bring in to expand the population of the place.

Expand the population when the IQ zero's are all parading up and down asylum seekers accommodation :-)

yagan · 04-10-2023 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193189#Comment_121193189

Are we talking about tabloid literacy?

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193254#Comment_121193254

Whatever, we seem to be worse in Ireland, even though you may sneer at the British. If you google "literacy in Ireland", it says "The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information. 25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy."

Surely literacy is a sign if a country is third world no not, the subject of this thread?

yagan · 04-10-2023 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193275#Comment_121193275

Well leaving cert schooling wasn't free until we joined the ECC so the older cohort could well account for that 1999 stat. My parents were of a time when schooling ended at 15 unless you won a scholarship. Today third level certification rates are higher for Ireland than the UK.

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193183#Comment_121193183

the sad thing is, you probably believe that

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193166#Comment_121193166

not to mention bed bugs 😁

yagan · 04-10-2023 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193345#Comment_121193345

If you believe nothing you hear and half of what you see then those boats are going in one direction in the channel.

Emblematic · 04-10-2023 2:07pm

I think when you live in a country for a while you learn to overlook the imperfections. You become blind to the beggar you step over on the way to work but you notice the beggars when you go to another country.

That is what I think is happening on this thread. People are pointing out, for example, the numbers using food banks in the UK but forgetting that the percentage is actually higher here.

I think also the UK tends to be much more self-critical of their country in their media reporting than Ireland, which tends to whitewash the situation.

Having said that, neither country is anywhere near like a third world country and those who say so have not been outside their first-world bubble.

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193319#Comment_121193319

you learn to read in primary school, not secondary school. It still does not explain the poor performance of Ireland versus the UK in regards to literacy.

Seth Brundle · 04-10-2023 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193043#Comment_121193043

Are you actually telling us that there isn't a huge undercurrent of xenophobia in Britain?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193144#Comment_121193144

You're repeating yourself here and yet still not telling us where you were told that France is such an awful state or was that simply your opinion?

The UK are outsourcing their border control to the French which is why they've chosen to pay the French that money. Pretty much the same way that they are paying Rwanda and other places to deal with the problems the UK has because they've not invested in such solutions on their own soil. France is under absolutely no obligation to stop people leaving France to go to Britain. As for the tents, etc. I'm not saying that I agree with that but maybe one should wonder why they exist rather than complain that they do exist. However, people aren't risking their life to leave the campsites; they are risking their lives to travel to the UK because the UK have made it so through their restrictive safe routes nonsense. Tell us, how can those people safely travel to the UK to claim asylum that doesn't break the UK's new anti-migrant laws?

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193380#Comment_121193380

And in real terms, the number of migrants who enter Europe and cross the channel is pretty small. You’re making it sound as though France is ushering people towards Calais and leaving a few Decathlon dinghies around the place for them to hop on to.

yagan · 04-10-2023 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193441#Comment_121193441

In the past the UK was a wealthy nation that could afford literacy supports in school, whereas Ireland was a poor agrarian country that didn't change its economic thinking until emigration had brought the population down to 2.9 million and education was prioritised in response.

goodlad_ourvlad · 04-10-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193487#Comment_121193487

isn't there a ban on small boat sales, without a yacht licence, within a 100 mile radius or something? With some dinghies being traced to Germany?

yagan · 04-10-2023 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193487#Comment_121193487

They can just buy those dinghies themselves, they don't need someone else to do that.

Anyway I thought you'd welcome such highly motivated people, EU's loss, Britain's gain etc...

end of the road · 04-10-2023 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193018#Comment_121193018

britain decided to privatize it's rail in the early 90s, slowly began doing it from around 1994 and completing it in 1997, nothing to do with EU rail directives which do not mandate privatization but private access which is very different.

that was it's choice and they did it as they wanted to get out of paying for it, trying to have the private sector take it on and pay for it all.

a few years and a couple of serious rail crashes later, the private track operator collapsed and that part is back in state control, with the british government now paying up to anything from 4 to 6 times more for the whole operation then it did under british rail.

the only thing ireland has a derogation on is tendering out of services but quite frankly, given the flop of that in germany, that derogation is likely to remain and that part of the rail directives is likely going to be dropped eventually.

but what we do have to do and we do do it, is allow any private operation that wants to operate here of their own accord, to do so, they just won't bother because the yield isn't there and the track access charges are the second highest in europe.

end of the road · 04-10-2023 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193275#Comment_121193275

i just checked, your claim is bogus.

no doubt you will keep repeating it but it's still bogus.

ireland has a higher over all literacy rate then the uk.

end of the road · 04-10-2023 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193345#Comment_121193345

it's established fact.

britain has left the EU so immigration to it is it's problem alone.

had it stayed in the EU it could still avail of the dublin and other agreements, but as it hasn't, then i am afraid it has to sort itself out itself, not the EU'S problem anymore.

yagan · 04-10-2023 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193719#Comment_121193719

They're quoting from over two decades ago.

Anyway, they said "we" a few times as if they were in Ireland, yet they had no knowledge of how education has progressed in Ireland since the 1970s. Very low level trolling, or just low comprehension skills.

To quote Eric Hoffer;

"In times of change, the learners inherit the earth while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists."

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193561#Comment_121193561

now you're just trolling

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193684#Comment_121193684

the world according to EotR. It must be nice living in la la land.

yagan · 04-10-2023 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193939#Comment_121193939

Didn't you say earlier that were trying to escape bed bugs?

Seriously though I thought Brexiters would be chuffed that there are people risking their lives to escape the EU. Victoria crosses all round.

end of the road · 04-10-2023 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193948#Comment_121193948

it's not my world, it's the actual factual world.

all of the rest of europe still has it's state railways and will continue to do so, only britain was stupid enough to engage in privatization rather then just doing the minimum of allowing open access operators.

Unflushable Turd · 04-10-2023 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121194239#Comment_121194239

Britain, like every other country in Europe, has a state owned rail network. What companies run the services on those networks is down to very clearly laid out eu tendering process. A bit like the one the NTA went through when it awarded the French multinational Transdev the rights to operate the Luas, or the British multi national Go Ahead group the rights to operate part of the Dublin bus network. Transdev, incidentally, also run train companies in France, Germany and Portugal, amongst others

the same thing will happen on the rail networks, now that the Irish government has finally got its finger out and separated the network from the rolling stock

call it what you like, but private train companies running services sounds a lot like privatization to me.

Francis McM · 04-10-2023 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193719#Comment_121193719

Incorrect. I gave you a link for the UK literacy link earlier.

If you google literacy in Ireland, it says "The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information. 25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy."

https://www.nala.ie/literacy-and-numeracy-in-ireland/#:~:text=Literacy%20and%20numeracy%20statistics,below%20level%201%20for%20numeracy.

Now you can make up all sorts of excuses about leaving school early here etc but that does not wash.

end of the road · 04-10-2023 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121194315#Comment_121194315

your claim was that the EU forced the privatization of the railway in britain, it didn't, that was britain's choice.

and yes, it was full privatization when it was privatized, track, train, the lot until the privatized track owner/operator collapsed in the early 2000s and the track returned to the state.

that was the claim i responded to.

Is the UK now giving off strong Third World vibes?

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