Luas Finglas

I'd say it'll more likely be developed in tandem with a revised Metro West. Or perhaps phase 1 of Metro West would be Daridstown to Finglas, then phase 2/3 all the way to Tallaght

None of these Metro projects are going to be delivered for decades.

Its interesting that people talk about them with such focus, when you consider they are so far away that they will have been reimagined multiple times, before they ever get close to operating that first train.

And who cares about the Luas to Finglas? Great way to import more tracksuited scrotes and Redden the Green Line somewhat.

I'd be more than happy as a southsider for that Luas project to be derailed.

For me the main benefit is for the redevelopment of Jamestown (43 hectares) and Glasnevin Industrial Estates (70 hectares).

For comparison, Irish Glass Bottle site is 15 hectares is supposed to have 3800 homes, so the above could have 25,000 homes at least.

Masterplans are being drawn up at the moment.

Potential for 10,000s of homes near the city centre with good public transport links.

How many are people driving from the commuter belt or people from inside the M50?

I think the problem with Metro West is that it connects sprawling low density housing estates and areas of not huge employment.

An orbital bus is enough. If land is retained for Metro West, they could do a Bus Rapid Transit.

There will always be routes with a much better cost benefit ratio. For example I think a Poolbeg to Tallaght Metro would be much more beneficial to Dublin.

I think in time Dublin might need an orbital Metro but it will be much more central.

We'll agree to disagree.

I think any orbital route would be more central, maybe following the canals or just outside them. Dart Underground would be even more useful. I think we've only enough money and labour to do one big infrastructure project at a time and I think once the Metrolink is done we'll do another radial route, my guess is Poolbeg to Tallaght.

Is there precedent in other cities of such far out orbital rail lines connecting outer suburbs of low density?

Copenhagen added a circle line but it's much more central.

Metro West would pass through several large areas with population density above 5000/sqkm. That's more dense that Swords and most of the city (except the city centre and inner suburbs).

It would interchange with Luas Red, Dart South West, Luas Lucan, Dart West, Luas Finglas, Metro Swords, not to forget all the bus routes. Also Dart North if it was extended. The route is preserved, above ground and mostly across green fields.

Finding a project closer to the city centre, which provides that level of connectivity, would cost many multiples more, not to mention the disruption. It's such a low hanging fruit and would create endless potential.

In the 1990s our debt to tax-take ratio was around 2:1 and falling (it dropped below 1:1 in the mid 2000s, just before the **** hit the fan). Today we owe more like €3 for every €1 we take in tax, and that ratio is only so low because of exceptional, one-off corporation tax receipts in the last couple of years... we are not as rich as we think we are.

Also in the 1990s, we had the European Cohesion Fund paying up to 85% of capital spending on infrastructure. These days, we're a net contributor to the EU budget, so those handouts are long gone.

I'd like us to do a deal with the army that they give us Cathal Brugha Barracks and maybe other land and we build a new barracks for them in the Curragh and also but then fancy new equipment.

Not sure what data there is now.... or what data drove the plans for Metro West in the 2000s.

When the Western Bus Connects orbitals are properly up and running, this would be a good guide. The northern N4 orbital is a totally new route and it's always busy. I use it regularly, as it's really opened up opportunities to travel by public transport.

Anybody using "green fields" as an advantage for building large tratransport infrastructure must not be too aware of the modern world. Concreting over green fields has limited potential going forward due to environmental constraints. Redevelopment and densification are the future and Dublin in particular has huge scope for this.

There is no chance that Luas Finglas will extend north of the M50. Any future orbital mass transit certainly wont be going through fields either, a public transport bridge is needed across the Liffey then buses (ideally articulated) can run across it and along the R136 and R113 on the south side and R121 and R843 on the north side, liking residential areas with employment and leisure opportunities.

I think patronage of the newer western orbital bus routes will be a better predictor of future metro west demand. Will be good to see how those W routes perform in the long term once they're properly bedded in (and not severed half way)

Is there precedent in other cities of orbital rail routes so far out?

Copenhagen has a new circle line but it's much more central.

It's something to think about I guess.

I'd like a Metro line from Poolbeg to Tallaght with a couple of stops in Ballymount industrial estate. This should have precedent in my opinion.

I think Poolbeg will have to be redeveloped to something like Canary Wharf in future as there will be no more free land in the city centre in a few years. Another stop can be in Grand Canal Plaza so Poolbeg will just be two stops away (another stop at the Glass bottle site).

The industrial estates in the SW can be redeveloped to housing also and this Metro would facilitate that.

Like the poster above says, success of the orbital buses will give us some type of estimate to the necessity of rail line.

Stating a density figure means nothing unless you have something that shows that such a density requires rail. In any case, radial demand is almost certainly going to be less that demand to/from the city centre yet we are literally set on using doubledecker buses on those routes for the foreseeable future. There is no chance that we will have rail on the orbital for a very long time.

Buses (ideally articulated) would suffice and would cost a fraction of the price. Also with buses you can serve multiple corridors rather than one fixed corridor with rail. A public transport bridge would be expensive but could carry buses coming from and going to multiple places. It is also the only thing that can relieve congestion on the M50.

And no, there aren't any reservations for Metro West. The project doesn't exist in any local or national plans.

The line has, in fact, been largely preserved. You can see it on a map to the east of my red line. It's not some unbelievable coincidence that the clearly visible space just happens to be the exact route of Metro West....

I disagree that a bus route is "the only thing that can relieve congestion on the M50". A high capacity, high frequency Metro / tram route would do more than a bus route. As already mentioned Metro West would connect with at least 6 other rail modes and as many bus routes as you desire.