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Interesting articles

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,430 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Bad luck for them, Vikki Wall already signed pro for the Rugby 7s.

    I think they're wasting their time somewhat. Perhaps in the past the stereotype female gaelic games players might have crossed over into roughneck jobs in construction or the military, but if my camogie playing nieces are anything to go by, they only play to keep fit and to socialise around it, where the glamour after hours is to the max and their preferred careers are teaching and pharma and what not.

    If the DF do want to target women recruits, they should go to the technical colleges and universities where they can demonstrate how the qualifications that girls are getting can be useful to a modernising DF on a part-time basis and get them into the reserve. I've always said the University groups should have an ROTC link with the DF as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭davetherave


    Shortly after the Commission on the Defence Forces published its report last year calling for a large increase in military spending, defence contractors around Europe began showing a heightened interest in Ireland.

    For decades Ireland, with its tiny defence budget and an army built around peacekeeping duties, has been no more than an afterthought for the industry. The size of the market was simply not large enough to bother expending much energy in lobbying or salesmanship.

    However, in interviews with defence officials and documents released following Freedom of Information requests, that is starting to change and some of the world’s biggest defence manufacturers now see Ireland as a potentially valuable customer.

    The most ambitious proposal of the Commission on the Defence Forces was a three-fold increase in spending, bringing it to roughly €3 billion a year and closer to the norm for small European countries.

    This piqued the interest of a big international manufacturer of fighter jets used by various Nato members.

    In particular, the company was interested in the commission’s recommendation that the Defence Forces acquire a squadron of interceptor jets capable of policing Irish skies.

    Discreet inquires were made through defence officials: would Ireland be interested in acquiring a small number of jets and support systems for its air defence?

    However, the plan soon floundered when the scale of the task became clear. Ireland would require not just jets but the entire surrounding infrastructure, including advanced radar, an expansive new training and maintenance programme and many new pilots. The cost would be multiples of Ireland’s entire yearly defence budget. Correctly assuming the Irish Government would balk at this, the manufacturer went no further with its enquiries.

    In the end, the Government opted for the commission’s less ambitious recommendation to increase defence spending by 50 per cent by 2028. But this increase was still enough to get the attention of some of Europe’s biggest defence companies.

    Some sales techniques have been covert, comprising discreet enquiries through political contacts and defence attaches attached to embassies in Dublin.

    Others have been more overt. Over the last year, the Department of Defence has received various proposals, catalogues and brochures from arms companies advertising their wares.

    Documents released by the Department of Defence in response to a Freedom of Information request show a broad range of communications from big companies such as the French multinational Thales and the Swedish arms manufacturer Saab.

    Like all advertising, these feature slogans, flashy graphics and boasts about the products’ effectiveness. But unlike other advertising, that effectiveness is often measured by how lethal the products are.

    In June, Expal, a Spanish arms manufacturer, pitched the Department of Defence on its 120mm mortar system capable of reaching targets almost 10km away.

    The system, it boasted, has been “designed and used with a high level of reliability of operation in extreme environmental conditions”. The detailed proposal also pitched the use of various types of ammunition, from “high explosive” to “smoke white phosphorus” (a controversial munition which is restricted under international law) and a transport system.

    If the Defence Forces require rockets, they may want to consider the FZ275 “laser guide rocket”, Thales Belgium suggested. These 70mm “precision strike” munitions can be fired from helicopters, planes or ground launchers and can take out targets up to 7km away, the company stated in a brochure sent to the department last January.

    One priority for the Government is to bolster the Naval fleet and bring it back to a nine-ship flotilla fitted with the most up-to-date equipment. This likely caught the attention of Diehl Defence, a German conglomerate focused on missile production (slogan: “technology for peace and freedom”). It offered various types of naval shells, guided and unguided, as well as sensors capable of detecting seaborne threats or “man overboard situations”.

    It also sent the department details of its SIMONE ship monitoring system “for early detection of threats facing vessels from pirate and terrorist attacks”.

    Several companies seem to have noted Ireland’s lack of an adequate air defence system. Diehl pitched its Iris-T SLM “modern air defence missile system” which can protect cities and facilities from aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles and ballistic short range missiles”.

    In another detailed proposal, Thales Netherlands offered its GM200 MM/C “multi-mission radar”, which it stated can provide air defence over a 400km area when combined with other systems.

    Some of the proposals offer an insight into the future of military equipment; Diehl sent the department information on its 40mm high velocity infantry grenade, which can be remotely programmed to detonate “at a point above or beyond the target”.

    The department also received a range of proposals on military drones such as the Aeronautics Orbiter 2 mini-UAV.

    Not all the pitches are from overseas companies. Several proposals on maritime drones were received from the Shannon-based company A-techSYN which develops “unmanned aerial systems”.

    Its drones could be used for a wide range of purposes, from target practice to drug interdiction to firefighting, the documents stated.

    Although Irish Defence officials have always received proposals and advertising material from arms manufacturers, this has increased significantly in the last year or so, several sources said.

    In the six months before that, proposals received by the department were dominated by brochures for more mundane equipment, including outdoor canopies and coverings (likely reflecting the Defence Forces’ role in setting up Covid-19 testing centres during the pandemic), and maintenance and transport services. Arms manufacturers hardly figured.

    One reason for the change is the commission’s report and the Government’s commitment to increase defence spending. The other is the impact the war in Ukraine has had on government leaders across the EU.

    “A large part of it is down to Ukraine,” said one defence source. “It was a wake-up call for defence planners in the EU more generally and these companies want to make sure they receive a piece of the pie.”

    Irish manufacturers also see an opportunity. Ireland does not have a defence industry in the traditional sense but it does have a growing number of companies developing dual-use products. This is technology, such as simulation software or the drones, that can be used for both military and civilian purposes. By some estimates the Irish industry is worth well over €2 billion a year.

    The industry is represented by the Irish Defence and Security Association (IDSA), which believes Government defence spending should enhance security while also benefiting the economy by creating Irish jobs and attracting investment.

    Irish manufacturers will not be able to provide ships, tanks or aircraft. But they are capable of providing some of the components that will go in them. Having some components made in Ireland serves a strategic purpose, IDSA chairman Pat O’Connor has said.

    When Ireland is making big purchases, policies are required to “ensure the capabilities developed are sovereign, supported and maintained locally to ensure knowledge transfer, security of supply and data, while enhancing supply chain resilience”, he said.

    The Government must abide by EU procurement rules in purchasing equipment but, as O’Connor points out, there are exceptions that allow it to give preference to the domestic defence industry “for the protection of the essential interests of a country’s security”.

    Furthermore, he said, “every procurement that occurs without this policy, is a lost opportunity for the local economy”.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Thanks for posting that Dave!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The shredders must be working overtime in the Department, the Greens will be more outraged!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,430 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Good.

    Fair play to the IT for going after this stuff and keeping it in the public consciousness. Whatever happens, defence must remain an active political issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    johnny did you take the piss and ask for a Iris-T SLM



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Me ? Never....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭greedygoblin


    @Dohvolle

    Wasn't 100% sure who you were referring to when you said Orwell Road (I kinda knew but needed to Google Maps it to confirm). Within about 30 seconds of looking it up, I received a call from a Dublin number. They had the wrong number. So I looked up the business associated with the number. It's address?



    Orwell Road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭mupper2


    "If the Defence Forces require rockets, they may want to consider the FZ275 “laser guide rocket”, Thales Belgium suggested. These 70mm “precision strike” munitions can be fired from helicopters, planes or ground launchers and can take out targets up to 7km away, the company stated in a brochure sent to the department last January"

    Interestingly in an article in "Air international" a year/18 months back about the Air Corps, it said they were looking to acquire guided 70mm rockets..



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    That Gepard seems to be proving its worth in the Ukraine at the moment.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,430 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm not so sure. Its about time the full capacity of the PC-9s were utilised, including training with appropriate smart munitions to provide air cover to mechanised infantry.

    In fact, the PC-9 is way more effective as a battlefield anti-armour option than if ever would be in air policing.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,430 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You're right, but developing capability means putting new skills and training parameters into the corporate memory of each element of the DF, expanding horizons, exploring new options.

    If the CoDF was based on 'who do we intend using it against', the whole report would have come back blank. The whole point of any national defence force is that the intent is that it never need be used against anybody, but when the unexpected occurs, it is available and it is current.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,746 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Irish Times would have had a fit if they'd seen the copies of An Cosantôir my dad was bringing home 40+ years ago. Ads for IAI, H&K...

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If a private company treated there employees like below the directors of that company would be in front if a judge by now




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,430 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Following all the hype and nonsensical grandstanding, the report of the Chair of the Consultative Forum has been published.

    While it does, in my opinion, make some balanced points about future investment and the sustainability of Ireland's current political policy regarding defence (I deliberately hesitate to call it a defence policy) , overall the report is flimsy and offers little new insight or depth into future options and challenges.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If they show the troops the right money there will be no isssue getting troops to go overseas




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Anybody got an idea when the next battalion is due to go...must be quite soon? (Can't access link above).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    Decades, not even years of under investment by consecutive governments in all aspects of our country has led us to this point. Defense, infrastructure, health etc. Lots of 'ah sure it will be grand' comments while the country swells in population and investing less and less.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭ShatterResistant


    Hi Larbre, do you mind me asking where you got this quote? Great little nugget!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    To be fair, Health (and Welfare) have pretty much seen as much investment as the state can provide (what value that gets particularly in Health is an entire other matter), Infrastructure wasn’t too bad pre Crash but there has been no acceptance that the entire construction sector never recovered from that and now simply can’t produce the outputs the nation needs (and won’t for another generation even if things changed now). Defence issues of course dates back all the way to 1922.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,430 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I found it here, but I remembered it from a TV Doco on the whole establishment of CAB and what led to it.

    The great Barry Galvin was lauded in it. Another public servant of immense character.




  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭ShatterResistant




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,430 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The DoD are just playing possum until Eamon Ryan goes away at the next General Election. And they're right.

    MM is making the appropriate noises, but theres not a chance his heart is in it either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If the Defence Forces want to hold on to the likes of Galway & Cathal Brugha from the LDA maybe the leaders should come out like the horse racing crew and state there case


    Post edited by roadmaster on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Defence Forces must be even in worse shape than we are led to believe if not even one Cadet from Malta can be made room for




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If Hamas read that they would probably think it went to far



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭davetherave


    The article is saying that he came back from a pub armed with a usp. You'd hope they mean the mess and that he was BOS, as bad and as unacceptable as the story is, if he was outside that's just pure stupidity.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Notmything


    Cages is the bit I'm struggling to get my head around.

    Been a part of, and witnessed impromptu physical activities where chaps were pitted against each other, but never anything like this.

    There also would have been the odd time where the NCO's on duty may have had to give a recruit platoon some extra activities due to messing or whatever but nothing like this.

    Hopefully it's something blown out of proportion but god only knows



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Notmything


    Aware of store rooms partitioned with wire, but in my day they were locked and sealed at the end of the working day. Not to say some barracks have similar set ups in non secured areas. But cages sounds so much more dramatic.

    Took part in my share of controlled aggression activities down through the years, some were official, others were as a collective punishment, good times.

    Part of me hopes this is just one of those "war stories" that's grown legs but god only knows.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    It's not the kind of publicity that will help the recruitment campaign...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    Why are subsea cables off Ireland causing continental concerns?

    You really have consider the idea that all these articles are a prelude to something big coming down the line for investment in defense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,746 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Article doesn't get off to a good start

    Three-quarters of all cables in the northern hemisphere pass through or near Irish waters, most of them off the southwest coast.

    What about the Pacific ocean? Then they quote Clare Daly... 🙄

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    In a rational view on defence matters I'd agree, but its Ireland we are talking about, heads in sand doesn't even come close to it, and I can't see any investment needed to actually be able to patrol our waters effectively.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Oh them evil Israelis offering value for money to the irish state




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    I would totally agree with you on 364 days of the year but Ireland has a habit of talking about stuff and puff pieces in media before they become a reality to 'warm up' the public. I have lost count the amount of articles in the past year that I have seen in relation to the army, navy, air corps and something is going to come down the line.

    It could be something new, some cast offs, an Airbus ACJ, or it could be an airfix model!!! I just feel that some big investment is going to be made and some new aircraft purchase over the next few years. Then again, I could be totally wrong!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Yeah. Probably a Falcon 8 for the government jet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    There's no question that the entire subject of defence has been getting a lot more attention than I can ever remember, but any step up from how low we are (as highlighted by those articles and long known by most posters here) requires a fairly hefty increase in budget, LoA2 levels isn't going to cut it, particularly with 2 years wasted as is and no sign of any budget uptick for another year at least. I mean for example we are supposedly going to see the "Plan" this week, if there was anything big it should be leaking over this weekend (remember how the 3 LoA's leaked out before the Commission published), we haven't seen anything like that or any suggestion of ambition to push hard beyond LoA2.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,430 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Look at this tankie gobshite now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Seems there’s issues with finding people for the Battlegroup, with only 35 volunteers so far, unsurprisingly the lack of extra pay/allowances has come up as a reason why.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/11/16/ireland-faces-embarrassment-as-just-35-troops-volunteer-for-eu-battlegroup/



  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭mupper2




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Jack Chambers must be wondering why he is at the RACO conference and not Martins Jnr Defence Minister from Mullingar.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Unlike peacekeeper service, there is no extra pay for Battlegroup service. It is understood the Defence Forces General Staff requested allowances from the Department of Defence at the start of 2023 but none have been forthcoming.

    Above taken from your link. What is wrong with the DOD . Pay the troops you idiots. The poor Mowags will be beyond fuc@ed at this stage if they are deploying a full mechanised unit. The upgrade only gave them an extra 6 years from now. They would really need to be putting in the order soon for what ever is going to replace the current mowags if 2030 is the end of service life.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I think the Mowags could be needed in Dublin at the moment



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