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No Prison Space

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    well yes if you want most of the country's money to go on prisons then yes we can look at privately built and operated ones.

    there is a reason we and i believe most countries have quite rightly stayed away from that idea.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    that makes things even more difficult for those having to work in them, who have an even more difficult job then they need to, due to the current prisons being over capacity.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    creaming it? no

    your figure is for all those who do legal aid cases as a whole, rather then a figure for each individual.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the world has moved on from lugs branigan, different era and a whole different world and society.

    that nonsense will no longer work in today's society, and quite rightly so.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Did you read the article? One individual earned €692,000 in legal aid fees.

    Almost 700k to one person isn't creaming it in your opinion?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    spike island was closed for good reason and will not be reopening, no matter how many times people call for it to do so.

    it was a difficult to work, very expensive prison to operate and was way out of date by the time of closure.

    it is a tourist attraction now and is much better for it, providing a better service as that then it ever could a prison.

    we need to build modern efficient to operate prisons rather then harking back to old unfit for purpose ones which can't serve their function.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Overpopulation symptom number 153.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    no as there is no such thing as over-population.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Squeeze 12 people into your bedroom, throw your arms up and cry "the problem is that we need to increase the size of my bedroom!"

    Just pure and utter fooking ignorance.

    Hence the state of the country, exactly the results of ignorance.

    Reality is looming large on this shitshow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    no the state of the country is down to lack of investment due to lack of political will.

    we know why people like you really scream about over population so that guff isn't going to work with me.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    And why do we need all this extra infrastructure.....?

    What other new element of Ireland has grown lockstep over the precise same time frame as the lack of infrastructure?

    Are you going to tell me about "the economy"? The economy that is an abject failure in its purpose, ie the improvement of society and its infrastructure?

    Are you going to tell me about the "need" for more migrants to fill the labour shortage, while ignoring that the labour shortage is worse than ever despite hundreds and hundreds of thousands extra people?

    Ignorance to reality has gotten us where we are. As to your pavlovian-like trigger of "I know what you're REALLY saying!", that's just ignorance too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60,559 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road




    the economy is doing well and unemployment is at the lowest it's been since the boom.

    the lack of infrastructure investment over the past decade is down to lack of political will because voters vote for parties who won't deliver such infrastructure.

    the reality you talk of is not reality, it's just what you want to be reality so you can scream about "da migrants"

    as i said, there is no over-population, that's just the latest "new world order" conspiricy theory nonsense.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    "The economy is doing well" at what?

    What is the economy doing?

    I'll tell you what it isn't doing. It isn't providing housing. It isn't fixing healthcare. It isn't providing enough teachers. It is isn't providing enough prisons. It isn't providing enough transport. And so forth.

    So when the asinine argument is put forth that "we need more migrants for the economy that already doesnt work, in an environment exemplfying the effects of overpopulation", it's just plain ridiculous.

    It's a pigs ear of an idea.

    Just as stupid as citing the growing labour shortage despite there being hundreds and hundreds of thousands of extra people. "That's working out terribly, let's double down!"

    An economic fallacy, amply observed, readily explained.


    Have you got anything else besides that fallacy, or is that the limit of the programming?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    the economy is providing enough funding to do all of those, it is the politicians refusing to spend the money because it's not a priority for their voter base by the looks of it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Whether the economy is not working, or not utilised, the defacto reality is that it is of no benefit.

    The multiple, multiple deleterious effects of feeding the unuseful economy that is based on a pyramid scheme of ever growing migrant labour is a fallacy then.

    If at a certain point in time there was a so-so economy matched with a so-so infrastructure, that would be head and shoulders above this phenomenon right now.

    Ie, the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of extra people have had the exact expected effect on infrastructure, while providing no benefit.

    Or to put it more succinctly perhaps, for every actually beneficial migrant, say a doctor who has capacity to care for 10 people, we are adding 20 migrants per migrant doctor. It's not just null and void, its net negative.

    Ditto for housing. One migrant builder that can build 2 homes, imported along with enough other migrants to fill 3 houses.

    The mathematics of this insane economy clearly do not tally up. Just look at anything and everything based on capacity, such as prisons, and we are over that capacity.

    We largely weren't over-capacity, and then we had mass migration, and then we were over-capacity. That's the order of events.

    Cause and effect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    we were absolutely over capacity for a long, long time, and then the politicians refused to invest due to their voter base deciding that investment in infrastructure and services was not a priority for them.

    migration has only increased the over capacity by a small amount, remember most of the migrants coming here are eukranians many of who will return home once mad vlad sees sense and sends his troops back home.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭giles lynchwood


    Deport all non national criminals back to whatever sihthole they came from for a start.All able bodied ukraines sent back to fight in the war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    No, you're either being purposefully incorrect in your representation and order of events, or unintentionally wrong.

    We didn't start at over-capacity.

    1 the government facilitated mass migration.

    2 capacity was soaked up by hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people.

    3 the government did nothing to alleviate the childishly predictable effect of mass migration

    4 the government continued to facilitate mass migration

    5 the government continued to not address infrastructural collapse due to its migration policies


    This didn't happen over night. This didn't happen over 1 year.

    Each and every year the government could look at the previous years lack of capacity, could look at the previous years migration, and then facilitate it again for the current year. No mistakes were made.

    The ukranian war simply highlighted the creeping effect of what was happening in the country for years upon years upon years. As a side note, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell the majority of those ukranians are going to return to Ukraine.


    If this is all too difficult to understand, consider the effect on necessary infrastructure in Ireland if, say, 250,000 non necessary migrants left in the morning. Housing availability, prices, healthcare, school places, and so on.

    "Dramatic effect" wouldnt begin to describe it. But it works both ways, that same effect has been in operation for along time, and it is only that gradual boiling of the water that has made it less dramatic. But numbers are numbers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the first one we already do unless there is a risk to them in their country of origin and that's not going to change.

    the second one would be a breach of international law, as it's illegal to send someone back to a war zone and force them to fight in that war.

    it's ultimately one's right to leave a war zone and refuse to fight in that war.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    we did start at over capacity, people on trollies and over capacity in prisons both have been going on for as long as i can remember.

    the government facilitated migration, not mass migration.

    the government didn't deal with infrastructure isssues because the voter base for both FF and FG didn't see such as a priority, given they kept voting for them dispite knowing that they weren't delivering on such issues.

    yes, the majority of ukrainians will return home, given they would ultimately prefer to be there and it not a war zone, rather then be here in a strange country away from family and friends.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Well you should remember more clearly then.


    The government facilitated mass migration.

    Regardless of what they did or didnt do after the fact, what voters did or didn't do after the fact, the sole fact remains we are experiencing precisely the predictable effects of overpopulation.

    Imported overpopulation.

    We were beyond capacity at any given year and the government imported even more people. And again the next year. And again the next year. And so on.

    If you've had your fill of food, yet continue to eat until you're sick, you have over ate. No, the problem isn't that you haven't had gastric enlargement surgery to facilitate your gluttony, it's that you just ate too much fooking food.

    If your daughter brought home an additional dog every day of the month to your home, would you be going around crying about the lack of facility for these new dogs day after day, would you be cursing yourself about your lack of rooms and kennels and dog food and walking them and vets and...

    you would in your bollix. You'd be telling her sharpish that there's no room. End of story.

    And side note again, not a snowballs chance are the majority of those ukrainians going home of their own accord.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    To present the idea more clearly than above, you really have to ask yourself, as a matter of education, why the difference in logic and approach to these issues?

    You fill a bath to capacity and beyond, water going everywhere. Would you blame the size of the bath, or admit there's too much water? Over flow.

    As above, you eat until your stomach is full, but go beyond and eat till you're sick. Would you blame the size of your stomach, or admit there was too much food eaten? Over eaten.

    You take all the money from your bank account as you have, and then take even more. Would you blame the lack of money, or that you withdrew too much? Over draft.

    A country more or less has the necessary housing, healthcare, schools, police force, prison spaces, creches and so, but more and more people arrive year after year after year. Would you blame the lack of housing, lack of schools, lack of healthcare, or would you admit there's too many extra people? Over population.


    Why would one apply one set of logical reasoning to practically any other part of their life, yet do the complete opposite in that one single regard? That's a question that's worth asking ourselves rhetorically. It gets to the heart of a whole lot thats gone wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Most of the crime particularly in rural ireland is carried out by a special group of Irish society who can do what they want under the smoke cloud of discrimination- racism- other yarns not foreigners!



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    no, we are experiencing the effects of lack of investment due to voter political preferences.

    the government facilitated migration for necessary reasons, not mass migration and the over population stuff is just the new conspiricy theory.

    the fact is, the world and it's countries can support many more people then they actually do.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    well no, they can't do what they like as they are breaking the law when they commit crime.

    the problem is few gards to catch them so that they can be brought before the courts.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Always, without fail, the apologisers start the story after the fact.

    "We need infrastructure" they say. Yes, that's very true.

    Whats missing is the start, the why, the genesis of the missing infrastructure.

    Homes didn't just crumble into the ground. Schools didn't lift off into space and so forth.

    The arrival, and continued arrival, of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of extra people into country is WHY we are missing all this infrastructure.

    I'm not saying it is the only reason, but it is so far ahead of any other single factor it might as well be the only one.

    Do you remember the myth of "we need more migrants to build more homes"? That one lasted a few years until it died on its arse. Funny how you don't hear it any more. It was a lie.

    Do you remember the myth of "we need more migrants to fix healthcare". That's practically dead now too after years. Fantasy.

    You see this is the problem, the reality of the situation is making a mockery of the illusion. It takes time, but again and again, the penny drops.

    One of the next myths in the making is that the rapidly increasing migrant crisis is only temporary, "they'll all go home". Well, I know which way I'm betting, reality is a good side to take in these matters.


    As to your assertion that "the world and it's countries can support many more people", it's pure speculative fantasy communicated by profiteering entities channelled through hapless muppets. There isn't a single iota of reality attached. Everything is demonstrably against it. Everything, not least the current reality of this country alone.

    Is it easier to live a lie? Absolutely. Let me try one out, "there's plenty of room for extra people at the bottom of the sea, all we need is literal science fiction to come along and make it feasible. In the meantime we'll pack em in to every nook and cranny available. Scouts honour it'll work out".


    This whole debacle, worldwide, is aging like milk. Neoliberalist corporatism practically fracking society through sheer people pressure for profit. It was never anything more than that, dressed up in idiotic daydreams for plebs.

    This is going to end as badly as you'd expect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    the reality of the situation is that it is the politicians who are refusing to invest in extra infrastructure as those who vote for the main 2 political parties don't see such as a priority, since they keep voting for them knowing that they will not invest in extra infrastructure.

    the migrant issue is only temporary, nobody said all of them will go home, but many or most will.

    over-population is similar to the new world order nonsense.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Literally did the same thing again, just completely skipping the reason WHY things are needed, going straight to some twiddle about political apathy.

    And after me just saying above that the next myth is bound to be "don't worry, they'll mostly go home", you include in your reply "the migrant issue is only temporary..."


    You just can't admit that hundreds of thousands of extra people have a negative effect on homes, schools, healthcare, affordability. It's just impossible for you to admit. Well here's the trick: as a human adult, your brain knows what you daren't say.

    The fallacy of this migrant led economic model is screaming loud. The most obvious thing in the world.

    I've used the equivalency before, but we are experiencing the effects of having multiple limerick cities worth of population arriving...minus the cities and their infrastructure.

    Golly gee whizz, I wonder how thats manifested itself in society.

    Bad ideas die hard, that's for sure.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    I've said it before, we don't have 20+ strangely similarly described problems.

    We have one problem, and 20+ logically connected symptoms of that problem.



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