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Pump Action Centerfire Caliber rifiles

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  • 06-10-2023 2:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2


    so I recently came across this rifle named the Troy PAR (pump action rifle) is is a P/A rifle chambered in .223/5.556 that feed from a box fed magazine from the reviews I have seen this rifle is known as to be quite accurate and a decent target rifle. I believe the pump action whilst I am sure may be akward when shooting from the prone, I believe as a left handed shooter the pump action will be easier to manipulate than a bolt action.

    I am curious as to weather this rifle (with a 10 round magazine) would be considered a non-restricted firearm or it is restricted.


    Post edited by Cass on


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    Should be non restricted with a 10 round mag. However, a centerfire rifle has to be over 90cm in length to be non restricted. The Troy PAR has a folding and telescoping stock, which can make the overall length less than 90cm, so you'd have to get a fixed stock if you want it on a non restricted license. Other than that, you should be ok.

    They also come in 308 and 300 Blackout. Just something to consider.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,986 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Folding stocks and the like doesn't apply to rifles. It's relevant to shotguns.The target rifle shooters put in on that way back in 08.

    As for the rifle.Its a good machine, just a bit weighty and tiring if you pump a 20-rounder according to Iraqi vet 8888 on YT who test-fired it.

    LATER.

    Forgot to mention a fellow Leftie, you are actually at an advantage with quite a few straight pull BAs, as many of them have the charging handle on the bolt on the RH side of the receiver. So just work the Bolt with your weak hand by coming off the foregrip work the bolt and go back to grab the front grip B4 shooting.If you are shooting prone a lot this works very well with a bipod[if your discipline allows]

    Post edited by Grizzly 45 on

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    Folding stocks and the like doesn't apply to rifles.

    It does it they reduce the overall length to less than 90cm, which happens for this rifle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,284 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Pump actions centrefires are common in Australia as semi-autos are restricted. Functionally the same as a straight pull. So should be treated like one (and thus a bolt action).

    I’ve heard of one company working in a straight pull/pump combo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,986 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Where does it mention that specifically in the legislation that folding stocks on rifles reduce them to less than 90 cms applies?

    short firearms” means firearms either with a barrel not longer than 30 centimetres or whose overall length (including the length of any detachable component) does not exceed 60 centimetres.

    Folded the Troy's 66 cms.

    Post edited by Grizzly 45 on

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    (c) the following long firearms (not being assault rifles or bullpup rifles):

    (i) single-shot or repeating rifled centre-fire firearms of a calibre not exceeding 7.62 millimetres (.308 inch) and whose overall length is greater than 90 centimetres,

    Reading the section again, I think you might be right, I was misremembering the wording of the section. It's a little bit unclear IMO, ie what is overall length, what contributes to overall length? Hypothetically, does a straight pull sks with a length of 89cm with the bayonet folded and 100cm with the bayonet out, have an overall length of over 90cm? What parts of the gun count towards the overall length, would that same sks be restricted if you removed the bayonet? Maybe better to err on the side of caution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,986 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Re the SKS. The bayonet is not an actual component of the mechanism. [Even though in the SKS case, various models have it screw-clamped to the barrel] Its an accessory so it doesn't count in the OAL.As for the straight pull SKS with 89 cms. Were you to mount a muzzle brake permanently on it or buy the Yougoslav model with a grenade launcher muzzle break and bring it up a few cms. You are golden with an unrestricted firearm. By rights,it should be the length of the gun from the front of the action to the muzzle tip.IMO that should decide what OAL is.

    Also,with the EU directive, that we were sneakily asked about in the survey this year and FEC blunderd about it and made it more confusing. states in EU Directive 91 477 EEC Para * Sect A prohibited weapons

    Semi‐automatic long firearms (i.e. firearms that are originally intended to be fired from the shoulder) that can be reduced to a length of less than 60 cm without losing functionality by

    means of a folding or telescoping stock or by a stock that can be removed without using tools.

    The Troy doesn't fit either category.66 cm folded and pump action. So it's not a now, unlistenable semi-auto, it has ten rounds max in unrestricted calibres,[unless you want the 450? cal version], it doesn't fall under a short arm definition under Irish legislation, having a folding, etc, stock is inapplicable to rifles in legislation.AFAICS its an unrestricted rifle.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 2 John.Deer80


    Thanks very much for the very informative reply,

    However to my understanding any unrestricted rifle in any caliber other than .22 Rimfire must be bolt action and therefore I believe a pump action Centerfire caliber rifle would be automatically restricted based on this attribute alone? I could be wrong on this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭freddieot


    It is true that any calibre rifle other than .22 which is semi automatic is Restricted.

    Howrver, If it's not semi auto then it's not restricted, unless it's more than 7.62 calibre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,284 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Thankfully, that understanding is incorrect. Having a bolt action is not a requirement for being non-restricted. It's not even a category of firearm for this purpose. The actually relevant category and criteria is ;

    repeating firearms” means firearms that are loaded and reloaded from a magazine or cylinder by a manually-operated mechanism;

    Manually operated would include bolt action, straight pull, pump action, lever action, and manual release actions. A pump action centre fire rifle up to a calibre of 7.62mm/.308" is not restricted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,284 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I wouldn't be convinced that a folding stock applies to the OAL requirement of rifles. Although I agree it's not crystal clear. There was a conscious effort to include it for shotguns, but not rifles.

    Many rifle chasis have modular stocks that can be swapped out. Either with quick release or via tools. I don't think these firearms should be considered <90cm. As they are over the required length when used. Obviously, using one with the stock removed means you have created a modified restricted firearm - no different that if you hacked off a fixed stock imo.

    But I also think there is a distinction between a folding/removable stock that is intended to make storage/transport easier. And a telescopic stock that who lowest LOP setting is <90cm OAL.

    • Over 90cm - Long Firearm (including folding/adjustable/detachable stocks) - Not restricted
    • 60-90cm - Long Firearm (including stocks that collapse to <90cm OAL) - Restricted
    • Less than 60cm - Short Firearm (not restricted/restricted as per pistol rules)
    • Over 60cm S/A Long Firearm but <60cm and functional with stocked folded/collapsed/removed) - Prohibited


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,986 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    The Tai pan, made by Southern Cross Small Arms.Mad-looking yoke!

    https://www.scsa-au.com/?fbclid=IwAR1ZDTpfCqD2x_NV03aGAl4nd-SyMCttIKTHZXOrRNKp-Kv3wr1zpVFMBss

    Or if you want a lever action AR I see Bond Arms,[known for their derringer pistols ],are making one As is Fliite Lite arms. Both should be on the market in Jan 2024,if you want a different option.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,284 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    There’s a most common one. Pump grip on a bolt chassis without the tube looks strange alight. Originally was a pump only. Straight pull handle option was just announced.

    for those interested:




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