DCM 2023 Mentored Novices Thread

T-Bird · 07-10-2023 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204783#Comment_121204783

Thanks very much. Great points there, especially the one about going with a pacer. I've ran plenty of half marathons over the past couple of years usually finishing around the 1hr 55m mark The 3 I did with pacers (2hrs) were very tough and exhausting and had to let them go a couple of times. I followed the 3 2hr pacers in Mullingar this year and remember giving up and slowing down at about 15k because I was spent. Then right near the end I found myself being jeered on by on of them encouraging me to go faster. I was a bit confused as to why he was doing it until I saw that the clock at the finish line was still under 2 hours... My finishing time was 1:5855.

I seriously doubt the Pacers at DCM will do the same. But I think doing even split pacing might be too much for the entirety of the marathon itself.

AlmightyCushion · 08-10-2023 1:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205210#Comment_121205210

From my experience of the clontarf half marathon earlier this year, the pacers went out quite a bit faster than the pace they were trying to hold. Target time was 1:45 which is about 4:59 but they were going about 4:45 according to my Strava prompts. I was able to hang with them for about 6k before I had to drop off. I think they might go out a faster pace in case they need to make time up later. No idea what they're like for the marathon though.

Kellygirl · 08-10-2023 7:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208929#Comment_121208929

They will go slightly faster than you expect as you always run extra distance in a marathon due to not being able to run the race line. So you might expect them to run 9:10 minute miles for a 4 hour marathon but realistically they’ll run closer to 9 min miles to account for that. I’ve run anywhere from 26.3 to 26.5 miles according to my watch. GPS wouldn’t be perfect and it’s impossible to run the race line with big crowds. Just something to account for when planning laces etc.

skyblue46 · 08-10-2023 10:32pm

I thought I'd throw this up here. I've found it to be far more realistic than most predictors. I'd suggest using the weekly average of your plan as the typical mileage.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/marathon-calculator/

witnessmenow · 09-10-2023 6:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121211772#Comment_121211772

A 04:27 from this one, we'll find out soon enough how realistic that is I guess!

There was an app, "kaizen", mentioned on another thread that takes your Strava data and gives you a time, that was 04:01 (that's my hm x 2 - 8mins) ... maybe if I used the Luas

Trampas · 09-10-2023 7:08am

If you decide to run with a pacer just use them as a guide. You’ve got to run your race and nobody elses race. You might find it a little hard going uphill so hang back than saying I need to stick with the pacer otherwise I won’t hit my time or I can’t get up beside them and at the start because you were stuck in the queue for toilets. Don’t panic you’ll catch them eventually but don’t try and catch them by Stephen’s green.

Annie get your Run · 09-10-2023 8:26am

The pacers in Dublin are very experienced, many are current or former Boardsies. Some have paced Dublin for years and know the course backwards (anyone going for 4 hours, or 4.10 are in excellent hands). When you go into the expo to collect your race number, go to the pacer stand, meet them, ask them what their strategy is going to be, ask them what their average pace will be, ask them where the tough parts are. They are great bunch and very approachable. There are advantages and disadvantages to running in a pace group but do chat with them and I think you'll get a better sense of whether it's going to be for you or not.

MisterJinx · 09-10-2023 10:42am

WEEK 16 - TAPER TIME !!!

The hay is in the barn! First off - huge congratulations on getting this far - there have been tough runs, great runs and everything in between. It's a massive commitment to train for a marathon, and you're through the hardest weeks - take a bow😊

Just to put this in context, I "think" only about 2/3 of those who started on this journey with us have made it this far. Commiserations to those who fell foul to injury in the build up and again to those who have made it through to this stage, look at the big picture and give yourself a pat on the back, it is incredible to get to this stage, very well done. The marathon is certainly a challenge but it's the training to get there that is really the hardest part and you've done that now.

It's great to see all the long runs on strava completed over the weekend. You can take great confidence from completing these distances on very fatigued legs. There's something to be learned from every long run, be it a success or failure, so be sure to note what went right/wrong and that with you into DCM.

DCM is now only three weeks away. You've been on a long road and are almost there, so stay calm and focused. It is only natural that many preparing for a marathon run, particularly if it is a first one, are feeling a little anxious. Don't worry, this is quite normal. So now it's time to put all that training into context and give yourselves a little break.

And now we are into the taper. The next three weeks will maintain the same structure as before, but you will notice a gradual drop in miles from previous weeks. Now is not the time to be chucking in extra miles, or some faster stuff - stick to the plan! The number 1 priority now is allowing your body to recover so you will be in tip top shape on marathon day!

Week one of the taper is still a fairly substantial week for both plans, as the gradual decrease in mileage begins. Boards followers will note that the Sunday recovery run becomes optional this week.

It is important that you have confidence and say to yourself every day: "I am healthy, well prepared and I am going to arrive at the starting line rearing to go." It is very normal to put too much pressure on ourselves and this takes away from our performances. So, over the next three weeks you should look forward to the race and go into it feeling nice & relaxed. Getting out of your normal routine or getting too worked up about the race can ruin months of training.

Just remember, you are well prepared. Nobody does a perfect marathon training block, we have life, sickness, injury etc however looking at your feedback I know that the vast majority of you have put in a serious amount of quality work over the last 16 week. You are more prepared than the vast majority of runners going out there on the day. You can have confidence that you are ready and will have a good day at DCM

The taper gives your body and mind a chance to rest, recover and prepare for your marathon. It is important to get the balance right in these final three weeks. This is about getting you feeling fresh for race day after all those miles. You may feel some niggles during the taper period. Don't get concerned as they are more than likely caused by the anticipation of the race and you being a little anxious about the challenge ahead. They will be out of your system by the time race day comes (if you are concerned always seek professional advice).

Very best of luck with this weeks training, stick to the plan and come here with any questions or worries you have, that is what we are here for.

Kellygirl · 09-10-2023 1:06pm

https://spotify.link/11ngoOFUKDb

This episode of The Runners Diary should be good and very relevant as they are talking to Dublin pacers.

witnessmenow · 09-10-2023 1:13pm

Week 15

Planned: 8K | 13K | 8K | Rest | 8k @ MP | 32k | Cross

Actual: 8K | 13K | 8K | Rest | 8k @ MP | 32k | 50 min walk (4.25k)

All done for the week. ~69.5k for the week

What felt easy Wednesday was a bit slower than Monday and Tuesday so I was worried that I might be getting sick (as everyone else in the house has a cold again!) or maybe I was too strict on the diet this week, but in general it was fine.

I was stricter with the MP on Friday, even set out to the first 2k at slower than MP to simulate the race, much better than last week but the overall was still a bit faster than it should have been.

32k on Saturday was a bit of a battle. Was deceptively warm so ended up taking on a good bit of fluid. I also realised that there is no way I'll be mixing up this high 5 drink while running so will have to walk for that. Walking certainly is better than stopping though as I always feel awful for a minute after water stops on longer runs. I was pretty sore immediately after the run, but while I was still running I definitely felt like I could have kept going if I had to (who knows if I could have ran for another hour or not!)

Feeling pretty good about getting far, the training has went well and I have done all I can. Last thing to do/get right is the race/pace strategy.

I'm definitely somewhat worried about the taper weeks! This week is fine, there is still plenty of mileage to do, but the following week and especially the week of the marathon will be interesting! The running I've been doing has definitely helped in different aspects of my life regarding anxiety and how I sleep and to reduce it significantly leading up to a big event will certainly be a challenge!

MisterJinx · 09-10-2023 1:51pm

This one lines up more with my own predictions and expectations

MisterJinx · 09-10-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213622#Comment_121213622

You can still run in the taper. You're probably almost running the same frequency but you're reducing the length of those run. So you will still get the benefit that it bring from a mental health perspective. You are also a big walker so getting out and doing some walks as recovery or rest will help there also. You might not get the runners "high" but you are getting fresh air, exercise and headspace. I'll lend you a dog if you want 😁

witnessmenow · 09-10-2023 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213842#Comment_121213842

Oh yeah, for me its full schedule til the week of. Just hoping it tires me out like my current schedule does!

I'm not sure I get this runners high people speak of!

Regarding the walks, I think thats what I'll do alright. Cheers for the offer but I have a couple of my own :) I'm waking up before my alarm these days as it is already so may as well get up and do something! I also need to keep up that early morning schedule for the day of anyways as I'll be travelling up on the morning.

Sunny Dayz · 09-10-2023 4:27pm

I wrote a long post on my own training log about the 3/4 marathon but it seems to have vanished. So I'm not ar$ed writing much more on Boards for it to disappear /rant over.

3/4 marathon in Tarmonbarry went well - came in at 3:30 which is exactly what I was aiming for. Few hills which really tested you but I'd recommend it for anyone considering a 3/4 marathon next year before DCM. Felt ok for it, could have run further after it, actually had run 2.5km before it to bring me up to 34km. Wore the clothes I'm planning to wear on the big day - question mark now over the bra. Also need to see about breakfast on the morning. I had 2 oatibix at 7am and felt hungry around 10am. Thinking on the day I'll have weetabix instead and eat it when I get near Dublin, maybe have 3 instead or 2 (I've done this before other long runs).

kevinfkennedy · 09-10-2023 4:35pm

Great info as always mentors. Your advice and content is outstanding. The group Strava is off the charts. This week was huge for my confidence after a terrible week prior because of Achilles tightness. Actually thought it was goosed so Hallelujah. 62k in the bag and my first every 3/4 Marathon, and man did it feel great to cross that bridge from a mental and physical perspective. It was roasting hot and hilly in Longwood for the last 10k but I feel I got nutrition (back to high 5 aqua gels) and more importantly pacing right. I pretty much ran at 6:30 for the whole thing bar the hills. Would that suggest my marathon pace should be around 6:30 until 30k and just see where the body is for the last 10k on the day?

TheRef · 09-10-2023 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121214634#Comment_121214634

Your training log post looks like its there. I had the same issue - hit post and it disappeared, only for it to reappear later. Minor problem is it stays at the position in the forum from where it was last week. It is there though.

Seifer · 09-10-2023 8:28pm

Virus really did a number on me so took longer to shake off than I thought. Got out for a little 2 km tester run on Sunday and everything felt ok. Did 5~ km this evening so will be trying to stay on track with the plan for the week.

MisterJinx · 09-10-2023 8:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121214659#Comment_121214659

How were you feeling at the end? Did you have anything in reserve or were you flat out and panned out at the end? If it's the former then yes go at 6.30 and see where you are at 32K, if not and you were on the limit then you need to pair it back a bit on the pace.

kevinfkennedy · 09-10-2023 10:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121215747#Comment_121215747

sound. I was ok I wouldn’t say I was spent.. I could have probably ploughed on especially if the heat & humidity was less intense.

AJ_a_y · 09-10-2023 11:24pm

A good couple of weeks here, although week 14 I found very mentally tough for some reason, had to convince myself to go on the midweek runs and actually missed one, anyway that's gone now.

Week 15 went really well, stuck to the plan and did my 33k on Saturday, legs were very sore but to be expected.

Started with a group for 22k doing pmp for under 4hrs marathon, and was struggling but stayed with them, then for the last 11k on my own really dropped off the pace and finished with total average 6.05/k. So I'm still a bit confused on where I'm gonna fit in but I would think under 4hrs isnt there for me, maybe around 6m/k and settle in to it, I don't want to suffer and have to walk any bit of it.

Well done everyone on the 3/4 and all the long runs up on strava, delighted to see the taper, but still lots of kms though 😬

MECA · 10-10-2023 6:46am

Just thinking and had a question... because of all the discussion about pacers so I’m wondering if anyone who has done before might know. I’d prefer to stay away from a pacer group. Just a personal choice … I know my head would be melted on the day if I either try to keep with them for a time or I’d get a bit freaked running with the huge crowd that’s with them (all these months running lonely country roads does that to a person🙃 … I’d be tripping over etc).

Is it possible to go at the front of a wave and avoid them? Sounds awful I know .. I just have very bad memory of chasing a particular purple balloon at a 10miler a few years ago and it nearly ended me 💀.

TheRef · 10-10-2023 7:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216820#Comment_121216820

What wave are you in and time are you targeting? No point being near the front if the pacers in your wave will catch you.

MECA · 10-10-2023 10:19am

Wave 3.. sub 4 in an ideal world (half thinking I might be deluded though).

skyblue46 · 10-10-2023 10:54am

I 'used' the Pacers as a guide rather than a group to run with. I let the majority of the wave and the pace groups go by hanging around the pen for 2/3 minutes after the gun. It meant I could quickly avail of empty toilets and a less congested start. They then became a target for me on some of the long straight roads on the second half of the route....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216820#Comment_121216820

TheRef · 10-10-2023 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217318#Comment_121217318

Wave 3 should have pacers for 4:00, 4:10 and 4:20. If I were targeting 4:00 but didn't want to run with them, I would start a little behind them and let them go, and maybe, just maybe, in the latter stages, they could be in your sight and which would give you something to target. Remember that you have to start conservatively whereas the pacers will be running even splits.

However, as you are not confident in 4:00, the first thing to do is figure out your what your goal time is. You absolutely have to be honest with yourself. Get that sorted and it will be easy to know where to start.

brick tamland · 10-10-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217473#Comment_121217473

I think youre getting waves 2 and 3 mixed up

TheRef · 10-10-2023 12:14pm

My apologies. Edited the original as yep - wave 3. Thx

MisterJinx · 10-10-2023 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217318#Comment_121217318

I agree with The Ref here, you need to be realistic about what you can achieve. SklyBlue46's calculator is a good indicator

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/marathon-calculator/

If you go out for a 4 hour without a realistic shot at it you will underperform considerably. And do remember my post from a couple of weeks ago, it's your first marathon, the time really doesn't matter, it's getting out and enjoying the day the matters most, you can do the next one for time. Nobody is going to give a hoot on the time you cross the line. You just want to pace it well.

Kellygirl · 10-10-2023 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216820#Comment_121216820

You can stay away from them. In 2019 I dropped back a wave. I walked up to the start line at the back of the wave I was in and then hung round there while that wave went off and was therefore at the front of the next wave. I totally ran my own race and didn’t pay a blind bit of notice to any pacers. I honestly couldn’t tell you where they were though maybe if I look back at my race report I mentioned them at some point. Don’t stress about where they are if you want to run your own race.

Louis 2018 · 10-10-2023 2:40pm

Some really good detail above as always. Can I ask how conservative is too conservative? I was thinking of hanging back a little from the pacers, try keep them in sight for most of the race and try make a move then later on. The even splits is what throws me off running with them from the start, however the fact that the pacers in a way take the monitoring of your watch out of it for you is a big help. Feel I have a realistic shot at 4hr (will take 3:59:59) but the strategy is what I'm most unsure of.

DCM 2023 Mentored Novices Thread

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