Will Andy Farrell get the adoration Jack Charlton got?

Get ya. Big thing was ulster v leinster. No Munster in sight. Banbridge home and away.

i agree Farrell has to win or get to final

i dont agree with saying we have underachieved, in reality we are a small island with rugby as a low priority sport

in the last 20 years at province and international we have achieved great success and the only problem has been at World Cup level with a number of different reason meaning we get knocked out at qtrs

Injury is the biggest concern now, 2015 we lost 6 of the starting team, do that to NZ who won the competition and they would lose. We have 4-5 doubtful for next week. The teams that win the WC in previous years play the same 23 more or less from start to finish

just because you have depth doesn’t make a competition better FYI, playing loads of shite teams for longer still won’t change the top 5 teams who will always win it. Soccer is still the same few countries who will win competition. So hardly overflowing with great countries outside those few

"1 token Prod"

Really in this day & age that's the best you could come up with.

Doris?

Bad choice.

He may have been born in Mayo but he was educated in that bastion of south side rugby Blackrock College, the same school as his father played rugby with.

It's not as if he honed his skills in Mayo.

When rugby supporters are challenged about how the makeup of the Irish rugby team and espically the Leinster contingent is dominated by guys from fee paying schools they always throw out Furlong or Sean O'Brien as a counter argument, while ignoring the hundreds of others who went on to represent Ireland that came from fee paying schools.

It's obvious why Irish rugby doesn't have the same broad public interest that other sports have when the majority of international players come from such a elite section of society.

Not really a bad choice, he was born in Mayo. He played rugby in Ballina.

As I already said rugby is 3/4th sport in Ireland, It is growing. More than a lot of people would like so these types of discussion are fired up all the time.

It's a team full, not all, of young Irish professional players. As a country we should be getting behind them

Except for Limerick of course.

Lots of (correct) discussion of the fact that people in working class areas have very little direct involvement in playing or watching rugby live, but I'd add that general interest in the national team is actually very high. TV ratings for the Irish games in the RWC are through the roof and beating everything else on TV out of sight this year.

Just like picking Furlong as the example that Leinster is not full of private school educated men, people pick Limerick as the example that rugby is a common mans game.

Rugby in Limerick city being a common mans game is like Furlong, the exception rather than the rule, it's an outlier.

One urban area in the whole country.

In the other city in the rugby province of Munster, Cork, it's certainly not the common mans game.

Stop picking single outlier examples to try and prove your point, because it doesn't work.

And how many players from the Connacht academy have gone on to play international, relative to those that have gone to private schools that have played international?

You brought up Doris as an example and it's backfired on you.

But that's all it is to the vast majority, a TV sport.

How has it backfired? If Doris was playing for Connacht of course he would be playing for Ireland. He is one of the best players in the World in his position.

Again I disagree with there are a lot of 'shite teams' in soccer (I know there is no Euros in Rugby) - Six Nations probably the nearest Rugby have.

But Greece won the Euros in 2004 and Portugal a coming team for a decade won the Euros in 2016, the Czech Republic created waves in Euro 96 Poborsky, they finished third I think. Ireland in Euro 88 when the competition was much smaller could have won it if they had a bit of luck. Denmark Euro 1992 shocked the world by winning the thing and they only got in because of the Yugoslav .

Then in the World Cups there are a lot of surprise teams that turn up in Soccer, Ireland/Cameroon 1990, Sweden//Nigeria 1994, . Croatia world Cup 1998, Saudi Arabia, Morocco 2022.

If it was easy for the 'shite teams' the current Irish soccer team would qualify for tournaments (which are expanded) but they don't.

In Rugby how many shocks are there - Japan and Argentina are the only two I can think of historically. Rugby is just the status quo really the Six Nations, plus southern Hemisphere SA, Australia, NZ and that is it. Fiji and Somoa's sole purpose in life just seems to be breeding grounds for the main nations to hoover up their players for their national sides. They have little hope of achieving anything of real note as long as this continues.

As a casual rugby watcher. I know enough just to watch the odd big pool match waiting for the QF in the Rugby where the real tournament starts. The Rugby world cup except for Fiji beating Australia has been very predictable. There was even talk of Australia heading for tier 2 - unheard of in Rugby. The status quo just does not fluctuate as in soccer. Turkey used to be the whipping boys in soccer 30 years ago for example, but now are a completely different prospect. Turkey ranked as high as fifth in the world in 2004, they were as low as 67th in 1993. Turkey has produced football stars to the level of Hakan Suker etc

But because of the nature of the sport of Rugby teams that are better than other teams by a distance invariably hammer them. How many Turkey's are there is Rugby? Would Portugal or Goorgia become a tier 1 nation any time soon?

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So to me Farrell can be judged from the QF's onwards that is where as Shane Horgan said "The time is now. it is now or never". The implication was clear Ireland should be winning the thing this year, the time for excuses is over. The team is in form, the defence is great and seems to be oozing confidence but not in a cocky way.

But on the other hand, this thread will look very silly and won't age well if NZ beat Ireland. It would be another in a long line of Ireland failures at Rugby world cups

I don't know much about Farrell's personality, but to me he does not have the personality to match 'Big Jack'. Jack Charlton's surname was not even needed in conversation. If anyone saw "Finding Jack Charlton" documentary.

People would get a flavour of what a big personality Jack was. Farrell does not seem to have a patch on Charlton just by personality alone.

Hear is a documentary about Jack back in Newcastle from 1971

Completely at ease with the camera and talking to people.

Here is he is again in the 70's with his TV series Jack's Game.

Where he went shooting with a man from a completely different background to him, but again he was at ease comfortable.

Andy Farrell would never to be able to reach this sort of 'Everyman' level that Charlton reached. As Giles said Charlton could be stubborn but very funny. Paul McGrath looked on him as a father figure, who helped him through his personal problems as best he could.

It is almost unfair and impossible for Farrell to live up to Big Jack's personality. That was a major part why Jack was adored.

Then there was the crowds after Italia 90 for the homecoming. Unprecedented Ireland celebrated.

The Irish soccer team even upstaged Nelson Mandela!

Farrell has a tough act to follow, the time is now.......

Edit - Sweden 1994 not Romania. Got my colours mixed up. Also forgot Cameroon 1990z

Not sure why we need the love in for Jack? everyone knows why the irish people liked him. Nobody is trying to disparage him

He was a gruff no nonsense English Northern which sat well with the people of Ireland.

This is exactly the point, there will never be a 'love in' for Farrell. Farrell does not have 'IT'. Even if Farrell gets to a final or win's the Rugby WC it is a 'might' whether he gets the same adoration Charlton got.

At one stage in Ireland for some of a certain generation it was pictures of The Pope, JFK and Jack Charlton.

There was a story of Charlton fishing on the Moy in Mayo. A crowd of people gathered on a bridge to watch him fishing. The Garda had to wade into the river to inform Jack to move as he was creating a commotion unknown to him.

Would Farrell do the likes of that? Casually fishing in the Moy while oblivious to the fact he was drawing a crowd. It is different level stuff, when it comes to Jack Charlton.

Sorry I laid the trap and you walked straight into it. Do you know what most people would describe Farrell as?

A gruff no nonsense English northern.

Ireland has moved on from the 90's, we had no real stars then, plus everyone lived in England that we would class as famous.

Andy lives in Dublin

Rarities though not very common, the Rugby crowd is by and large a different demographic to the masses, in Dublin it is East Dublin basically along the Dart line for example. There is the odd exception in Rugby such as Trevor Brennan known as the 'Milkman'.

The heads in Munster, Cork Con/Shannon etc. Munster is the exception massive cross over in all sports in Munster only have to look at Limerick - Football, Soccer Hurling Rugby. But for most of Ireland Rugby does not really 'grab' all communities it is very niche. Nevermind a nation. It is part of the reason Charlton managed it, he transcended the sport itself. Farrell has some job to turn that around.

Given where Rugby fits in the sporting hierarchy in Ireland, and the perception that some have that it is a sport for privately educated posh boys (rightly/wrongly). It is going to be extremely hard for Farrell to get that nationwide adoration Charlton received.

"Soccer isn't more competitive, it's just easier for smaller teams to compete with the big boys....y'know, the dictionary definition of the word competitive"

😀

No trap at all it actually proves my point more-so

Which according to the premise of this thread, can Farrell get the same adoration as Charlton?

Would the average man on street know who Farrell is to be honest? Would they even care? This is in age unlike Charlton's time where info can be found at the push of a button. But still Farrell would be unknown or at best half known in my parts of Ireland. He does not have a Jack Charlton profile of personalty.

Rugby is a different world in Ireland. Bubbles of interest. I remember going to a Rugby match in the AVIVA. There was big club GAA matches on the same day Semi Finals. Could not find a place that showed before the Ireland game. Instead they had England Italy on all the televisions/big screen (6 Nations). I was shocked.

And the further you got away from Dublin 4 the less the casual person on the street would know there was a Rugby match on. I learnt my lesson the next time a GAA match clashed with a Rugby one. I tore off afterwards to a city centre 'rustic' northside pub that I knew would be showing the league final between Dublin and Kerry. It was on the same day as Ireland played England in the AVIVA.

So with all this division and clique type stuff Rugby has it makes Farrell's task of Charlton adoration, ether extremely difficult or virtually impossible.In my opinion.

You are taking it from the angle Farrell will replace Charlton. Nobody is suggesting that. Based on the millions watching the rugby and thousands going to France I would expect they do know who Farrell is

Next time, go into the pub, ask the barman to stick on the GAA game and they will stick it on or tell you go watch it in the bar etc. I don't see what relevance a game on TV has? most bars will stick on what the first person asks for.

I was at a rugby game and walked out into Sandymount hotel and watched the GAA once. Yes the big screen had the rugby on but it was on in another TV room

In any sport the better side nearly always wins. Thats why it's called an upset and you have the underdog.

A striker is only as good as the winger who can cross or the midfielder who can pass the ball to him. Hence why they are team sports

"tournament played at an elite level by a handful of teams"

Unlike the soccer world cup that has had 8 winners out of 22 tournaments you mean?

Rugby has 4 out of 9.

I'd say its more about him getting us to #1 in the world?

Yes, that was the whole point. Its why Farrell cannot have the same impact.

The comparison between Farrell and Charlton is what this thread is about!!!!! 😀

The question the OP posits is would Farrell recieve the same adoration Charlton received I think the answer is simply NO -

Why?

1) Charlton's personality - larger than life transcending the sport - the little old dears suddenly were wondering if McGrath was playing in midfield or defence

2) The difficulty of the sport of soccer in comparison to Rugby - a true global concern

3) The lack of previous sporting international success Ireland had in Charlton's time

4) The downtrodden nature of Ireland at the time etc - dreary 1980's recession hit Ireland - mass emigration and unemployment etc

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In contrast to now -

1) Ireland is now more upwardly mobile more educated - there is less of need for a 'saviour' like Charlton to take their minds off the grind of daily life is not there

2) People involved in Rugby - are certainly not of the downtrodden demographic - they don't need to look to be 'lifted'

3) But there are still whole communities in Ireland that are untouched by Rugby. It is viewed as 'other' in such places

4) I don't think Farrell has the personality to transcend his sport - to be 'loved' in Ireland like Charlton

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Your point about Rugby growing is a complete irrelevance to the question would Farrell get the same adoration Charlton received. In you going on the more general point about Rugby, it proves Farrell has the impossible task to get the Charlton levels of adoration, in my opinion.