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Owed 3K by somebody who refuses to engage

  • 30-09-2023 1:33am
    #1
    Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    I’ve about 3K still owed to me after initial loan of €6K in 2021. Individual in very difficult circumstances. I had called out about certain discretionary spends detailed on social media, eg “look just what I’ve spent on..”

    The very odd time I get a payment, inevitable out of the blue, most of the time totally ignored, but mostly absolute refusal to engage. I know circumstances are generally difficult, but I get zero detail or updates. I have a hell of a lot of issues myself and need for payment which debtor is fully aware of but disinterested in.

    Post edited by Hannibal_Smith on


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Write it off and no contact.

    Let it known also. 3k is a fair amount, but I'd be happier them out of my life.

    Again no contact. Your mind sake is worth more than a few grand.



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    I actually quite badly need the money tbh, big health expenditures now that my health has gone way south over last year. The person I loaned it to drank it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,600 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Have you any documentation confirming the loan arrangements, signed by the recipient?

    If they don't have the money, you've few real options. Can you shame them into paying you by telling their mammy on them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,139 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    It's a toughie.

    Only thing I could think of would be to shame them by posting comments to their social media for others to see, but the way you describe their situation makes it sound like it would be pointless.

    I hope you get something sorted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Is it worth the stress?



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  • Administrators Posts: 14,433 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    If they are in difficult circumstances then they are unlikely to be in a position to pay it back to you. The type of person you describe is the type of person who owes more than just you. So posting on social media "look what I just bought" tends to mean - look what I just bought on credit/using someone else's money.

    You are very unlikely to get the money back. The only way you will get it back is if they borrow it from somewhere else. But I'm sure that is not your concern. €6K is a lot of money to give anyone, especially someone who you probably had doubts about from the beginning.

    If you have no written record of it being a loan, and no record of repayments already made then all you can do is keep asking. Try appeal to their better nature saying you are stuck for it and need it back by x date. They might give it back to you - but only if they can get it from someone else.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    I think you did really well to get €3000 back in 2 years. How long did you envisage, or did they suggest, repayment in full would take? How about suggesting they commit to repaying x amount per week for x amount of weeks?



  • Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭steinbock123


    I don’t know you personally, but I have a fair idea of your health issues from your many posts on other topics.

    Is the person you loaned the money to aware of the severity of you conditions? Maybe make them VERY aware of how unwell you can be at times, appeal to their better nature.

    But then I suppose, some people don’t have a “better natures” unfortunately, so you may have to write it off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,554 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    The only chance you have is shaming them into repaying you but some people who owe do not care.

    We had a lawn ruined before and even after being awarded damages through the small claims court he still wouldn't pay. I had two posters printed about a fundraiser to help him pay his debt. I sent one to him and the other to the parents kindly asking if they could put them in their church on the notice board.

    The bill was paid promptly in full.



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    “Shaming” is the approach I’ve had to turn to, unfortunately, something I’d never envisioned I’d ever have to do in life. Of course it doesn’t go down well but occasionally results in small amounts being repaid. The individual isn’t presently in a good position to repay, I understand that, but has been in the past and yet completely avoided payments whilst undertaking some discretionary spends. At one stage asked for it all back 🤷‍♀️ Hence I had to change tactic from almost passivity in 2021 to making suggestions as to updated regular repayment plans. I have been more that reasonable up to a more recent point, have suggested increasingly smaller amounts (€10 per month) where I did receive 2 repayments bigger than that. Then it stopped and upon asking for a further €10 was told there was zero income, not even one if welfare payment coming in 🤔 which puzzles me enormously, but I do take it money is very tight. It’s hard to be patient considering there were times the debt could have been discharged or almost so.

    Was taken in 2021 as a stopgap for something allegedly specific at the time, but I think a lot used elsewhere. Arrangement was casual but I had drawn up my rules and set up the spreadsheet etc. wouldn’t do this ever again, needless to say. Any (smaller) loans I gave to friends/relatives were cash-flow stopgap and repaid within a few days.



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  • Administrators Posts: 14,433 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    A tenner a month is a ridiculous amount to ask for. You might as well ask for nothing as €10 a month means you will never get your money back. And €10 a month is of little benefit to you in your current circumstances. Ask for at least €100 a month, or let it go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Small claim court?



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    I don’t think it would be appropriate here, though I don’t fully buy the story that there is no income.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,085 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    I gave a loan once long time ago. Happy to do it at the time as I had it and the person hadn't and was adamant they'd pay it back.

    Needless to say I got back maybe half. I just had to let the rest go as their circumstances weren't improving in the long term. While I could have done with it in the end it just wasn't worth the hassle.

    I can guarantee you Ive never lent a.cwnt to anyone ever again. It's a hard lesson to learn tbh.

    I've obbiygivwn money to my kids even as adults but they never asked and I'd certainly never expect it back.

    I'm sorry about your health issues. As another poster said. Would there be any good in explaining this to the person and maybe agreeing a.better monthly repayment than a tenner?

    Good luck



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Absolutely doesn't come under the remit of the SCC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I would have asked every time they posted on social media if they have some of the 3k they still owe you.

    I had similar with a friend in the past. Owed me about 1k and and got half back over a year. He swore blind he didn't have a euro to his name, but managed to spend about 500 on himself and at least the same on a gift for his wife and kid. At the time this happened, I needed the money, but I realised it wasn't worth my while trying to get money back from someone so selfish. I never lent him a penny again and made a point of not lending him my tools, which he would often ask to borrow. I don't loan people money anymore. Happy enough to buy things for people in need, or give small sums of money, but never with an expectation of getting it back.

    Stay Free



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    I actually did that but have, with some justification, been accused of harassment. This year I found myself with a lot of medical-related expenses which have eaten into my own finances, and more upcoming ones, as I’ve had a lot of recent bad luck with my health. I do know one. Any get blood out of a stone, but in this case experience has taught me to be somewhat suspicious I don’t know the full story. Yeah? Pretty galling when ya see your money. Ring spend to fund your friend’s wife’s & daughter’s gift. I think I’d feel tempted (not in the child’s case though) to send a note to his missus “it was a pleasure finding your gift, think nothing of it” 🤣😁



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    Indeed not, it’s entirely an inter-personal matter. Down to tactics & trying to ensure that there is no wool being pulled over one’s eyes, ie significant discretionary spends ahead of repayment. I’m interested in hearing how others may have tackled this. I do believe there is the intention to repay, but I’m inclined to believe there are some slightly complex factors, beyond what meets the eye, inhibiting that.

    I’m presently trying to get as many financial things in place now as I can, eg trying to apply for doctor medical card, anything that will make things a little bit better. I’m finding I have to take taxis in place of buses, and can only drive short distances on good days with the MS.



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    Can anyone explain this, because I may genuinely be missing something valid & legit, but last time I heard communication the statement went “I’ve nothing coming in, I’m living off my ( late) father’s pension”. Now I’m not well up in private pension provisions/carers provisions, though I do know there was a carer role. I just know about state pensions where you need to declare person as deceased asap and after short while at most the pension is stopped.

    Where m would typically be the case where child can continue to live off deceased parent’s pension for very many months (over 6) as I’m perplexed?

    Maybe there’s a very good valid explanation I’m not currently aware of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,326 ✭✭✭jj880


    Burned a few times myself in my youth.

    Someone then once told me when it comes to friends and acquaintances:

    "Neither a borrower nor a lender be"

    Wise words.



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    Aul Shakespeare was never wrong. Fortunately the small mending’s I had otherwise made were just as they said on the tin, pending transfers etc. and repaid with speed. I never expected any haste with this one. But there was the initial parameter it was to be repaid before year’s end, given that there was potentially very good earning power. I think I was a bit too sift and max in my initial approach, considering I’m now viewed as the devil incarnate and that any further attempt to request repayment is viewed as “harassment”.

    Incidentally a few months ago upon request I was asked “why do you need money?” when he 100% had been updated about my scenario.

    He has always played a “victim role”, not just with me, I believe. At the outset I was told of 100 woes and fell for it, hook, line and sinker, because my default is to believe and to remedy. According to a friend in his business realm (who responded to my hinting post in LinkedIn), I believe they’re another person who was taken in.

    that professional colleague is amazing, he offered to stir around to repay me as the scenario so badly reflected on a profession where trust is hinged, but I, of course, would not hear of such a thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    They said it all with harassment. I was expecting that.

    I do not think they'd get a parental pension. I'm jappy to stand corrected though.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Your money is gone you will never see it again, move on don't make the same mistake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    Unfortunately, if this is where you think your money has gone, on the drink, then you were lucky to see 3k of it. It's a terrible situation to be put in, and you were the better person for loaning the money...sadly I doubt you'll see no more.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Agreed, I think you need to accept that your money is gone for good and stop fixating on what this guy may or may not be up to with pensions and whatnot. It sucks and I totally get that you need the money yourself but you can't get blood out of a stone and any further mental energy you expend on this is basically the equivalent of throwing good money after bad. Your time and mental health have a value too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    What was the reason for the loan? Could his reason have been fraudulent? If so it could always become a Garda matter- just saying; we’ve seen it recently in the news.

    If there’s no legal recourse- either civil or criminal - and your solicitor advises that sending even a solicitors letter is less than pointless, then you have to put it down to experience and move on. But I would check the legal standing of this- if I’m being taken for a fool, I’ll want to have the last laugh .

    Thankfully I’ve never been in such a position and have no intention of either- whether it’s drugs alcohol or gambling or some other addiction like addicted to the high life😀- you’ll rarely see your money be returned -some people think they’re entitled to take money from people who have it and not return it - you’ve been had as a soft touch - it stinks but that’s the way life goes.

    I was approached once by an obvious idiot who thought I’d reach for my wallet - I told her that things were tight right now with lots of bills and expensive commitments (that wasn’t the case at all but I knew I’d never see the money again and also she’d be back for more) - she never asked again but has asked a number of people I know - it’s like sales, all a numbers game.



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    I don’t think the money is absolutely gone, I will pursue it. Guy is due to inherit after family home sold, albeit I think there is serious debt to service first. now I do want this lad to buy his own place, however modest, as I think he genuinely won’t be able to live any kind of life otherwise. I have strongly advised him to buy whatever he can in a location with transport (non driver) wherever feasible, and concurrently repay me without further delay. Of course it will be glittered away on tons of whiskey and goodness knows what else.



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  • Administrators Posts: 14,433 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    You are still far too invested in his financial situation. Talk of inheritance and property purchase, "won't be able to live otherwise". It's all irrelevant. Even him asking what you need money for. It's irrelevant. It's your money. Not his. You're not looking for a loan from him. He borrowed something, you are now asking for it back.

    And by the way, he will be well able to live regardless of his situation. People like him always do. He will just move through life borrowing from the next source, not paying his own way. Confident that someone or some agency will always be on hand to bail him out.

    You have very little legal recourse here. So you are depending on his good will to return it. You could try to pursue it as a civil matter but it might cost you more than he owes you. I think continue to ask, but don't expect much.



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    He insists he is earning from “”father’s pension” which is really strange to me. Unless I am missing something. Father was British, Army too, maybe there’s sone continuity pension for offspring?. Zero response



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Forget the money. You're not getting it back. It's all lies

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Most likely he has access to his father's account and he hasn't told them he's dead so the money keeps coming. Eventually this will catch up to him and they'll want their money back, including legal charges for fraud. Look none of it is your business, he doesn't want your advice and he's unlikely to repay you. Put your energy into something else.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Presumably the loan was off the books ?

    if it was , any court proceedings would like be in vain as the other party could simply claim you gave the money as a no strings gift

    sorry OP



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,554 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    How about saying pay me what you owe and I won't ask DSP to investigate your father's pension?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    I’ve been blanking this out of my mind for a while, other more pressing issues re major health issues. Still those health issues have cost me a lot of money. I am of two minds about all of this. He’s not, let’s say, beyond bending the truth to suit an instance, but overall he is very prone to over-complicating things for himself, let alone anyone else. Creates 2 problems where 2 might originally exist. Also I think there might be an element of mild bipolar or something where focus is lost or diverted, there’s also episodes of depression.

    Actually rather like myself, except I have a hell of a better oversight I or handle on my own situation.

    One irony is that in response to hearing I had diagnosed MS he said he had just been to neurologist diagnosed with brain atrophy of the cerebellum… related to B1 (thiamine) deficiency from alcoholism. I sent a high dose pack, as I know full well the sheer amount of brain damage this causes. Tablets likely down the toilet, no acknowledgement of course. Denial larger than a former top earner of a Montrose salary.



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    I did make a minor deal but I’ve made so many many many many deals with this person. €5 per month repay, just to keep him “engaged” in the prices. Inotherwords not conveniently pretend to forget about it altogether.

    I learned from a friend of his, an email via LinkedIn, that I am not the only one owed, per se. A “business deal” with an input promise that ended up null and void. The guy has withdrawn public profile since, no wonder.

    Not been able to get work in a niche area of work in IT, where reputation counts a helluva lot. Not skilled in alternative employment, or has tons of excellent skills but employers expect a climbing resumé rather than a static or “declining” one. I personally think this is crazy, no different to taking in part-time work which is a totally legit thing. 🤷‍♀️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,494 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    5 euro a month? it will take them 50 years to pay you back at 5 euro per month.

    it should be more like 100 euro per month.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,513 ✭✭✭Sono


    sorry to hear this situation OP but your naivety is quite something, €5 a month is a complete waste of time, just forget about it and learn from it, you ain’t getting this money back, it’s not what you want to hear but you’ve believed lies, it’s about time you believed the truth.



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    There is a house being sold; I absolutely do NOT take joy in anyone’s bereavement or sake if family home, I think it is saddest of times from a human level. However I’m wary that a desperate person will go beyond reasonableness in ordinary disbursements, distribution of inheritance. I made sure to write to sibling to ensure fairness to them in view of severe addiction of sibling who is in debt.

    I do get furiously annoyed but my one constant is that I have NO wish to see this guy in any firm of homelessness, in fact repeatedly urge him to secure a purchase of a roof just ahead of repaying me when it comes to it. I do NOT want to see this homeless, as so easily could happen. Family home is large and valuable, estate to be shared with one sibling AFAIK, other sibling has ordinary variable common sense as people do.

    I have said and keep stating but a fecking roof somewhere there’s transport within walking distance, make it a start point and then immediately fecking repay me, and fecking don’t hide under the sand as he keeps on doing between no-sand pop-ups. In an immense irony he gives out about the very eejitry he caries in with. It’s hard wired here, obviously.



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  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    I am keeping an extremely close eye on sale of house and probate.,I will not let individual rrst.

    I never in my life reckoned I’d have to be hard nosed like this. I didn’t have that upbringing per se, never saw my parents, both in business, other than use tactical negotiations.

    The most vastly annoying thing has been the boasting of a few extraneous sorbs on social media, which I had the audacity to confront, eg “maybe that €300 might have gone to advice the debt * “ One person on site immediately responded they had associate with precisely same issue, but worse. A few friends in the same line of business felt sorry for me (I recently got MS diagnosis) and had idea to club around and help finance me in view of colleague let-down. I graciously declined. This guy simply doesn’t get embarrassed. I don’t think you can afford to in recurrent alcohol detox.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    We lent the same amount to a devout Christian who promptly disappeared. It’s been a joke in the family ever since.



  • Posts: 0 Paris Little Twig


    No religion in the family I dealt with except mother who had apparently once been RC, though not reflected later



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    I'm going to be brutally honest with you. You are naive to the point of being foolish.

    This is an alcoholic. No matter how much you are there for this person, he is on a downward spiral. Unfortunately, he needs to hit rock bottom before he realises he needs help, and then, it's only him that can pick himself back up. Not the purchase of a roof over his head, not a new job, nothing. You are facilitating him by making sure he's not homeless, €5 a month in repayments to you and sounds like he's got arrangements with others too. You are not helping him, the more you create a bumper for him and give him a soft landing, the more he will use you, others and family.

    An alcoholic is selfish, they don't see anything, have no empathy, will not be concerned of consequences. Until you let him hit the bottom, he cannot make his way up. Nobody can help an alcoholic only themselves.

    Step away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭pjordan


    RTS - I follow your very intelligent and insightful postings on various threads on the site and it surprises me to find you so persistent and invested (excuse the pun) in this matter, especially when a succession of posters have blatantly pointed out the harsh reality to you that what you describe is a no hoper, with a person with obvious addiction issues. If you ever engage with Al Anon or similar, one of the first things you learn is that you have to stop providing a crutch for people like this. Face it, your money is gone! No amount of self debate or justification to your own conscience or better nature putting forward a series of reasons or excuses as to why you feel a need to help this person (to indirectly help them repay their debts to you!) mean a thing. The only person that can change this person is themselves and no intervention by you will change that. If you are truly adamant about getting the value of your loan back, then I suggest that the most effective and timely solution is to appropriate some items of similar value to your debt from them. Otherwise let it go and write it off to experience!



  • Administrators Posts: 14,433 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    You loaned money to an addict. You are not the only one, as you have since realised. None of you are getting your money back. No amount of "advice" or "keeping a very close eye on things" is going to make a blind bit of difference. You are dealing with an addict whose only interest is keeping the supply going. He has borrowed off people before you and since. He will move from person to person as one supply dries up. When he asked you it was because his source before you had finally said no.

    I suggest you read this and step off the merry-go-round. It might be worth passing it on to the colleague who also feels responsible for picking up after him and protecting him from his messes. For as long as you all keep the merry-go-round going, it will keep going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,308 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Forget it, its gone, you did well to get back half to be honest.

    Let it be a lesson don't lend money to friends.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    @[Deleted User] Look this it toxic behavior on your part it's not good for you. You can't solve their problems and you aren't ever going to get you money back or get an apology / justice. Keep them at a distance and forget about them.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Why are you keeping an eye on the house and probate? You have no right or claim to anything? Its not a pleasant thing to happen, but if you have your own health worries, stressing about this money is the last thing you need. You're not going to get an lumpsum payment for €3,000 or anything close to it and watching what he does or spends is just going to make you more bitter about it, which you don't need either.

    If he's agreed to pay you €5 a month and that's ok by you, take it. But he'll only default on it and whatever you get will be a drop in the ocean of the €3,000 he owes you. Let it go at this stage.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Tork


    What I can't figure out is why you let this person in under your skin in the first place, nor why you chose to lend them such a large amount of money. I don't want to be cruel but this thread is starting to read a little bit like a stalkerish blog. Did/do you see them as some sort of a project? It's all a bit off.

    You're viewing this person's honesty through the prism of your own lived experience. Most of us don't like owing money and if we find ourselves in that position, we make sure we pay it back asap. This guy is not you or me or most people. He has a different moral compass, whether that's because of his addiction or simply how he is.



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