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Budget 2024 - The Squeezed Middle

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  • 09-10-2023 12:00pm
    #1
    Posts: 0 Armando Odd Seam


    So we’re just about 24 hours away from our overlords the government announcing what (if any) of the tax money we’ve been paying all year will be given back to us in one form or another.

    with a reported €2.3bn in cost of living supports my hope is people who work will see some benefits, that said it sounds like there is

    Min wage increasing to €12.70 will be great for lower income workers, but probably less for small businesses.

    Heather Humphrey certainly seems to have gotten most of her wishes, CB getting a double payment along with an extra “bonus” in January for welfare.

    but if you own your house up to €1,250 tax break! Very nice. I believe the rent credit is likely to come to €750 max.

    anyway I may run to the shop before the price of fags skyrockets tomorrow.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Fantastic, can’t wait to give in Notice to my employer and get €230+ to sit at home and do nothing everyday.



  • Posts: 0 Armando Odd Seam


    As someone who used to do that because of no available jobs

    its not nearly as great as you’d think

    in fact I actually left a job last year because it was crap and took a job in McDonald’s due to not finding anything within a few weeks and simply being so bored and depressed not working I couldn’t cope anymore.

    True story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Rampant inflation. Let's increase minimum wage. Why are costs continuing to rise? Oh yes the employer must push up prices to cover wage increases.



  • Posts: 0 Armando Odd Seam


    Yea true.

    so I take it you’re cool to have your wages cut if the lower income workers get no increase?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Been on it before myself, plenty of stuff to be at to pass time if you want.

    No commute, no 50 hr weeks, no people to be dealing with, not getting up at 5.30 am into the miserable weather etc

    It aint all bad either like!!



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 2,606 Mod ✭✭✭✭horgan_p




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,217 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I'd much rather hear of targeted increases in policing, healthcare or education than get a tax credit for all of an extra €20/€30 a month.



  • Posts: 0 Armando Odd Seam


    Trainee Garda salary doubled so that is a plus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    That's the thing. Giving away money is nice but it's better to invest it in the future. Rather than supplementing peoples incomes it'd be better to work towards a place where it's not necessary.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    From the Irish Independent on Saturday " I've met couples of €250,000 who couldn't cope" .



    Why is it that when there is a genuine issue around working families struggling somewhat a ludicrous example like this is used, if you're on £250,000 and you can't cope it probably means your wasting thousands upon thousands on complete luxury items that nobody needs



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  • Posts: 0 Armando Odd Seam


    i saw that and honestly cringed. So 250k a year, about €5k a week between two people and they’re struggling??

    fcuk off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,318 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    hmmm lets see, some sectors, in particular some large businesses/corporations, in particular energy corporations, currently reporting record profits, this hardly is playing a major role in inflation, hardly!

    ..oh no, its clearly to do with employees pushing up wages, most increases of which are still lagging inflation rates, yup, this is definitely the workers causing this problem, definitely!



  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    Give with one hand, take with the other.

    Twas always the way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    We need lower taxes for private sector workers. Right now there earnings are being taken at source to fund a government which has been using their money against them to create a superheated housing market in which they have to compete against the state for somewhere to live.


    Anyone who is against tax cuts for workers "because it would worsen inflation" doesnt know a damn thing about economics or inflation, which is solely created but central banks and government borrowing simply magicking up more money, thus increasing supply and therefore the price of everything.


    Not to mention the Irish are some of the biggest savers in Europe, all down to property market of course.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2022/07/20/irish-savings-rate-highest-in-euro-zone-at-peak-of-covid-shock/


    Secondly reducing the amount of tax the government has, will weaken it and empower the citizen. A good government does not celebrate fleecing its people, ours does. It means more money to buy elections with and then once elected, can figure out ways and schemes to give it to themselves and their supporters.

    Smaller government budget means less corruption possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,318 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...and again, wrong wrong wrong and wrong, most money is now in fact created by financial institutions, we call these 'banks', this money is in fact in the form of credit, and its primary use is to inflate the value of assets such as property...

    governments globally have been playing this game for decades now, governments create money by running a deficit, but since deficits are believed to be the work of the devil, they have moved towards surpluses, i.e. which in fact is the act of removing money from the economy...

    ...which means we primarily run our economies using bank created money, i.e. credit, whos negatives have been explained above.....

    ...inflation can be caused by both the demand(money supply) and supply side of our economies, our current inflation is primarily a supply side problem, from severe supply chain disruption during covid, and now an energy shock, hence why the price of energy has sky rocketed....

    ...this can be partly seen by the overall profits major players in our commodity markets and energy markets, many of which are currently recording record profits!

    ...money is created when banks create a loan, this is the primary source of our money supply, and again, governments only create money when running a deficit!

    the size of a government doesnt necessarily equate to the amount of corruption within it, ireland is known to be one of the least corrupt states in the world, certainly when compared to more impoverished nations....



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Yes private central banks create money, governments buy it with bonds. This is the root cause of inflation. Not wage rises or lower taxes. I know this very well thank you very much. Why you wrote a whole tirade about it I do not know.

    Would be nice to have a country in charge of its own currency supply (can issue & create it at will DEBT FREE), however we are at the mercy of the private central banks.


    Back to the main point, Irish people deperately need tax cuts. Especially private sector workers, who unlike the public sector, dont get money for jam and have to earn every penny, dont have job security and can only dream of a defined beenfit pension. They are the ones keeping the country going, and they are the ones the government has always hit hardest as they mostly aren't unionised and dont have a voting block.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,318 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ..again wrong, when governments create bonds, this is in fact the beginning stages of 'public' money creation, but in order for this transaction to be complete, there must be purchasers of these bonds, hence bond holders...

    ...once again, the majority of our money supply in fact comes from the financial sector in the form of credit, i.e. the private sector money supply, this occurs when banks lend, from individuals, right up to major businesses and corporations....

    in order for banks to be able to do this, they must meet whats called their 'reserve requirements', which includes deposits, but can also include other assets in their portfolios....

    ...this is also a part of whats called 'financialisation' of your economy, under such an approach, governments are 'encouraged' to remove themselves from providing critical social functions such as providing housing, and to do as much as it possible to encourage and facilitate other major parts of an economy, in particular the fire sectors(finance, insurance and real estate), in doing so, only that the main priorities of these sectors is to maximize its financial gains from the whole process. this generally leads to highly dysfunctional housing markets, serious supply problems and hyper inflated property prices....

    ...once again, our current inflationary problems are primarily supply side lead, as explained earlier, i.e. the rapid increase in the price of energy, oh yea, this has been largely privatized over the last few decades also, so happy happy days, record profits, and everyone's a winner!

    yes wages are not the cause of this form of inflation, again, its supply side!

    ...once again, most of our money supply does not come from central banks, as explained, but central banks have been doing their best to also fcuk this up, by maintaining extremely low rates, and facilitating the financial sector with money, via programs such as qe, which in turn just bulked up the reserve accounts of banks at the central banks, allowing them to lend more, i.e. and by allowing them to lend more, and more they did, but not to the likes of sme's and us citizens, but to banks and other 'non bank financial institutions', i.e. shadow banking entities, who in turn used this money to further inflate the value of assets, including engaging in share buy back schemes, etc....

    ...yes public health care staff and gardai etc, sit around doing fcuk all all day, definitely!



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The squeezed muddle



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,480 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    If you have a mortgage for a house like this and your on 250k it could be challenging to manage, you would also be craked in the head to pay that price for a 3-bed semi.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    You know their situation?

    Health issues, solicitors, family...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,321 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    I'm guessing part time workers will only get the small minimum wage increase



  • Posts: 0 Armando Odd Seam




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,544 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    What salaries do the squeezed middle start on?

    40 k and upwards?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭DataDude


    €250k a year is nowhere near €5k a week net.

    Assuming a fairly standard 10% pension contribution, and allowing for the €110k a year tax bill, you’d be left with about €2,300 a week. €10,000 a month.

    €4,000 a month mortgage. Childcare for a 2 or 3 kids at €1,200 a pop in south dublin. Other personal circumstances. It’s really not that shocking that someone in that income bracket could also feel ‘squeezed’. And given those people are contributing nearly €10,000 in taxes a month to fund all the stuff that will be handed out tomorrow, I don’t understand the feeling of contempt towards them.

    It’s clearly a great income but people often don’t realise how effectively Irelands 52% tax rate above €70k pulls higher gross incomes down closer to everyone else.



  • Posts: 0 Armando Odd Seam


    Fair enough I had not considered that!

    My bad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭MacronvFrugals


    The drone of the M50 from those houses would drive you mad!


    It's interesting that the government is going for an €800 rental credit but €1250 mortgage interest relief, this seems like poor optics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,880 ✭✭✭amacca


    Like wtf?....it looks like my nephew built it out of lego...


    3/4 of a million....for that....in leopardstown.....ffs


    Your Avin a larf mate!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,880 ✭✭✭amacca


    Whild I understand what you are saying...It's still a headline designed to infuriate...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    For a married couple it works out closer to 145k after tax, that's a fair amount of money- there are many couples, both working, on less than half that that would both would be considered to have very good jobs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭Blarney_man


    My wages are getting cut every month just because I'm not on minimum wage



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