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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Field east


    Surely Isreal would have enough missiles , etc, for the short term at least without having to supplement with immediate imports - re planes , helicopters , all kinds of bombs/ missiles , mines, all types of personnel vehicles,tanks, etc. Hamas , no matter how ‘well armed ‘ it is would not have the capability of taking out a lot of the Israeli hardware IMO



  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭thereitisgone


    Finnish government statement at 5.30 Finnish time, 3.30 Irish

    But already fingers are being pointed at Russia, one of there survey ships wer seen over it mid September

    Finland and Sweden monitor seismic occurrence's constantly and don't see any data leading to an explosion, but this press conference has already been delayed 3 hours so looks like something is suspicious




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    There's two seperate things going on here that aren't at all related.

    Currently Ukraine are not near Tokmak that much is true. The territorial gains have been modest because Russians have not been playing defense in depth but rather counter attacking every inch of territory lost like madmen and taking horrible casualties. Even on the offense Ukraine have been losing 3 times less equipment(and possibly men, I'm just extrapolating here I don't have evidence for this. ) confirmed by Oryx. Which is honestly staggering.

    But the whole political fiasco in congress has not affected what's left in assignable aid. Only that new aid packages will likely not be announced for the coming month.

    There's still 6 billion worth of aid left to go to ukraine. It's not like the weapons deliveries are just stopping because congress is a shitshow for a few weeks. Even in a government shutdown the military and other government institutions are still mandated to work. Taking into account that much of the equipment that has been promised still hasn't arrived it seems more like weather or the fact that Russia has deployed their more experienced VDV reserves to the Robotyne front has been slowing things down more.

    https://kyivindependent.com/uk-defense-ministry-thousands-of-russian-airborne-troops-redeployed-to-robotyne-as-infantry/



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They will have initial supplies that won't last very long when the proper shooting begins, Israel will use a serious amount of artillery in the coming weeks and months,this will have a knock on effect on global supplies the Israelis will be giving priority when they ring up and say the hundreds millions to spend on orders,

    They won't be needing much air 2 air missles and helicopters they last time I checked had over 20,000 JDAM bombs, Ukraine were given a handful like everything else ,dribs and drabs



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Yeah be interesting with Taiwan. I just don't know if Chinese patience has run out yet on that situation. But to be fair it would of been perfect timing. China might need the world's attention a bit more distracted again with another conflict or 2 happening now. More if Kosovo kicked off more and if there is a wider conflict with Israel iran etc. then they might make a move.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 681 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    USA will blockade China's trade routes crippling them overnight if they start it with Taiwan



  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭thereitisgone


    Not the easiest task for China attacking an Island which has massive amount of modern western antiship armaments'

    Especially when you have a fledging navy designed on Russian designs

    Those same Russian navy designs have just been destroyed by a country without a navy

    Its not going to happen, China will flex its muscle, but at the end of the day its very difficult for them to get boots on ground

    They can bomb Taiwan but still they need boots on the ground

    I just dont see it happening



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed, another one to watch out for.

    Also China would also not repeat any of the Russian mistakes, any analysis I've come across shows that China have overwhelming advantages in taking the island. The hit on the economy would be insane, the economic cost would be extreme - possibly something that would hold China back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    China's best weapons are it's hypersonic anti ship Missles and it has numerical advantage in men , air and ships and other weapons,

    In various war games scenarios the US loses its surface fleet and aircraft in the first 5 days of a real war , besides China has the ability to hit Taiwan from its mainland and don't have to Risk men and equipment



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Taking Tokmak would have been the ideal of course, but next best thing is that its well within Ukraine artillery range now, and its a very important logistics link for the Russians. So once they can hammer away at it, that will do the job for now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    It's more that. They would just bomb and send missiles from mainland China. I think what the Russian/Ukraine conflict has shown is to bomb your enemy for days and then move in. If Russia could go back to day 1 they would of bombed Ukraine for days on end then made there move then instead of what they done by just thinking they could waltz on in. Easier to build a country up when destroyed then have your army decimated and nothing to show for it. I say China would think the same way just send 100s of bombs and missiles into Taiwan each day from mainland China then after a mth or so move in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt



    Obviously the Russian army still has plenty of armour and soldiers left if they can still launch such big attacks. There's video's of large attacks online too. Hopefully they all fail but so far they've been able to send enough reserves to stop any major Ukrainian breakthroughs and still launch major attacks.







  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Which goes against the population opinion on here



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    That seems to be the thinking, most American aircraft launched from outside of the range of China's Antiship missiles would likely see them run of fuel before getting to the Chinese mainland and even at that they would be flying light minimal weapons and extra fuel even the mighty F35 would struggle to hit China before having to ditch into the south china sea ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭thomil


    You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The vast majority of Chinese warships are indigenous designs, they've had to be, given the Sino-Soviet split of the 1960s. Yes, China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, is a Kusnetsov-class ship, but it's been so extensively modified that it bears only passing resemblance to the original design. Shandong, the second carrier, while based on Liaoning, is very much its own design, and the third flat-top, Fujian, which is currently fitting out in preparation for builder's trials, has more in common with the Kitty-Hawk-class carriers of the US Navy, that is, second generation supercarriers, than with any Soviet or Russian design.

    It's a similar story with surface vessels. Over the last several decades, the PLA Navy has been emulating European and US designs in their frigates and destroyers. Even the oldest destroyers in PLAN service, the 1990s-era Type 52 destroyers Harbin and Qingdao, are much closer in their design to contemporary Italian or German designs than to anything coming out of Russian design bureaus. It's a similar story with frigates, corvettes and gunboats. In fact, the only two positively Russian vessels in the PLAN fleet that I could find, two Kilo class submarines procured in 1994 & 1995 respectively, are slated for decommissioning and scrapping.

    What's more, the vast majority of the PLA's combat force is young. Most ships were built in the early to mid 2000s, and wouldn't look out of place in a US carrier battle group, given their design. And there are a LOT of them. It is also interesting to see how China seems to be taking more and more cues from the US with regards to their amphibious warfare forces. China is currently introducing a series of helicopter landing ships, the Type 075, which is a lot closer to the Tarawa and Wasp class ships of the US Navy than to the Ropuchas that Soviet-influenced navies have traditionally operated. And once again, there are a lot of them.

    The story is somewhat more different in the air, as the PLA Air Force operates several squadrons of Flankers, and several hundred Chengdu J-7 and Shenyang J-11, strongly modified copies of the MiG-21 Fishbed and Su-27 Flanker respectively. However, the majority of fighter squadrons seem to be equipped with indigenously designed Chengdu J-10 and J-20. Even where Soviet-era designs are in use, such as with the PLA AF's strategic bomber force, these designs will be significantly modernised and modified to fit in with the PLA's doctrine. I'm pretty sure that the designees of the original Tupolev Tu-16 Badger bomber would have no idea what to make of its Chinese version, the Xian H-6.

    This all reflects the Chinese approach to any bit of technology they can get their hands on: Imitate, Iterate, Innovate

    Imitate: This seems to be where most people think the PRC is still stuck. This is basically license producing foreign designs, or simply stealing the designs.

    Iterate: At this stage, modifications are introduced into the design based on Chinese production, design & operational experience. This is where the later versions of, for example, the J-7 and the J-11 come in, foreign designs hat have been modified to better suit Chinese needs

    Innovate: This is the stage where China is at right now, both in the military and in the consumer industry segments. At this stage, indigenous companies have gathered enough experience to begin producing their own designs. Most Chinese surface warships, the J-10 and J-20 fighters, Xian Y-20 airlifter and much of the PLA's ground equipment were designed once this stage was reached.

    Now, needless to say, not every single one of these designs is going to be a success. Indeed, some designs have quite a reputation. However, to simply write everything off as Soviet/Russian hand-me-downs severely undervalues the massive investments China has made into its military in recent decades. What's more, the country has been very methodical in its approach, proceeding in a way that they believe they can sustain for the long haul.

    If there's any weakness, it'll be in the doctrinal and Command & Control side. China hasn't fought a major land war since the 1960s & 1970s, when doctrine was still dominated by Mao's principles of a "People's War". It is anyone's guess as to how the PRC will fare in today's network-centric & highly technological battlespace, where situational awareness and the ability to act at a moment's notice are key. Has the PLA been able to adapt its doctrine to this new situation? There's effectively only one way to find out, and it's not one that I'm particularly thrilled about.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,456 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    2 part bbc radio documentary on palestine from over a year ago,(so far ive only listened to 1 ) not pulling punches on British crimes against Palestinians ,but everyone has a bias or agenda , even if they're trying to avoid that ..

    British were occupiers more than colonisers - and they only "acquired" it from the turks ( the previous colonisers ) post WW1 ,

    To the local Palestinians the incoming european jews were colonizers,

    Think along the lines of the ulster and munster plantations...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭thereitisgone




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭thomil


    None of that refutes the points I made about the PLA's or China's approach to its equipment design & procurement, or the point I made that simply writing the PLA's equipment off as Soviet hand-me-downs is foolhardy. Indeed, the last paragraph actually reinforces the point I made about the lack of modern combat experience by China. The last major conflict China was involved in was its invasion of Vietnam in the late 1970s, and could not be more different from any modern conflict. It is this lack of experience, and the uncertainty whether PRC Command & Control abilities are up to the challenges of a modern war, that will be the deciding factor.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    China could launch attacks on Taiwan tomorrow if they chose to ,this thread wouldn't exist only for the experts telling us that Russia Will not be invading Ukraine nearly 3 years ago



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    Beverly Hills, California



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    They could, but they likely wouldn't expect to win. The challenge set to the PLA by the Premier was to be able to strike at Taiwan by 2027, so he doesn't think it feasible yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I think they can hit Taiwan but not actually invade , and there weather window is closed for a crossing this winter???

    But open to correction



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,405 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I think the Ukraine war has given them pause for thought, but also America seems determined not to let Taiwan fall and would deploy ground troops.

    I think China expected Amercia to just withdraw.

    All Eyes On Rafah



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,405 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Think the two main months are April and October.

    All Eyes On Rafah



  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭thereitisgone




  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭thereitisgone


    So its quite similar to my situation

    I live in Finland

    I can drive to the Russian border which is 150 km away

    I can throw stones over the border but cant actually invade

    So me and China are kinda in the same boat

    Also i have weather window, much nicer to do it in summer



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    If I remember correctly there was an incident where armed Russians Crossed into Finland supposedly on a Hunting trip several years back,no permission was asked for not did they enter through a official border crossing...

    Point still stands they can launch attacks from mainland China without having to put boots on Taiwan proper



  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭thereitisgone


    Yes exactly like i can throw stones across the border at Russia

    If i throw big enough stones will Russia surrender



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Go and throw some stones and tell us how you get along



This discussion has been closed.
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