Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

You can't understand the difference in deliberately murdering babies in their beds, children been abducted to be stored in tunnels and be disposed of later to babies and children been killed in bombings targetting terrorists?

They are no different to you?

I think most right thinging people can see a big difference.

We’ve had pages and pages of “will someone not think of the children”.

OK it’s absolutely a valid concern- and innocent people also- on both sides I might add.

So do we as a nation outlaw war? Outlaw Retaliation? Outlaw Defence? Because some innocent people might die when doing so? Hardly practical is it?

It’s naive to think that a nation defending itself and using the playbook of war, won’t impact innocent lives- of course it will.

All we can do shorterm is monitor the situation - Israel are going in- we can’t change that fact but we can shout stop if we feel they’re not achieving their objectives of Hamas destruction and/or that it’s impacting too much on innocent lives .

How much is too much? Well there’s guidance for war laid down and then there’s personal morality - no one is going to be “happy” with innocent deaths- limiting those deaths tends to be the main objective in these circumstances so yes, I believe Israel should be heavily monitored in its actions - that’s the best that can be achieved right now- a bit of realism has to come into play here.

More than 100 years of continuous murder and every peace process failed until we reached today's stage which is arguably the worst it ever was. There will never be peace there, the arabs will never accept Jews on that land, no matter what they will be given they will still find reasons to kill them. And no the Jews are not innocent either but between them and the Palestinians they are the better people.

Obviously, there's a difference, but not one that abdicates entirely the perpetrators of the other method of killing which is what you and others are doing.

I think both acts are barbaric.

I think it is a cop out to say 'targeting terrorists' knowing the collateral damage that always happens.

Israel is already breaching the Geneva convention and noted world leaders including the head of the EU and the US have offered them support in their actions.

So, I'm not holding out much hope in the 'monitoring of their actions' that you are suggesting.

Former Israeli Prime Ministers and military officials have come out both blaming Nethanyahu and his government for escalating hostilities that led to last weeks attack and for the actions they are now taking.

It's very annoying to see the outrage of Hamas' attacks and the complete acceptance of Israel's response currently, and provocations previously. Not saying you specifically are doing this, I've just seen a lot of it.

The Arabs accepted Jews on that land for centuries. Which completely disproves your assertion.

Hamas executed entire families. They executed civilians just for attending a festival. They mutilated and raped. They paraded victims. They are terrorists.

Was that a lie?

Or are you trying to discredit that too?

To root out the death cults in Germany and Japan, women and children died too in bombings. It is Hamas who have triggered this sequence of events, and those who die in rooting out their death cult are victims of Hamas too.

If you’re happy for Hamas to bomb Israel and other nations indeed, knowing they won’t retaliate because they have their hands tied after adopting your “innocent people might die” stance, then great- get ready to embrace your own death soon.

Me, I’m kindof comforted that there are nations out there equipped and prepared to fight these predatory terrorist organisations who believe in fck all other than lining their own pockets and watching events from their safe haven countries, for the ideals that I believe in, namely freedom of speech, democracy and human rights.

Telling people to leave before the bombing starts is just as barbaric as what Hamas did?

I already know the answer to this because I've read your posts for years but you see no moral difference between Hamas and the Israelis?

No I appreciate you sharing your wisdom to all of us pointing out all the mistakes we're making about the conflict.

The world has got a whole lot more complex over the last 20 years- regimes that kill certain groups of innocent people purely because of their nationality or religion or ethnicity have exploded throughout the world.

I believe that we have to re-evaluate what is acceptable response now to these regimes because our current and past laws on this are out of date. How do you deal with organisations who advocate the death and destruction of whole nations and peoples?

It’s not as simple as “will someone think of the children” .

If it was acceptable for those with superior force to annahialte entire neighbourhoods because of a few rats running through the streets, how would you feel if the UK had acted in this way to Derry and other Northern Ireland towns throughout the troubles?

With the military might, budget and support that Israel has, if they cannot target Hamas without harming so many innocent Palestinians, they really should have a stop and think about what it is they are doing. Well, they know what they are doing and they know there's enough people like you who will give them a pass on that.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. It is entirely reasonable to ask why you accept those accounts.

And if you accept Hamas are capable of these atrocities, why this would be beyond the pale for them.

So you accept Hamas are capable of horrific acts.

Gunning down civilians in cold blood, with no apparent regard to age or gender or threat.

It is a serious and realistic possibility that they mutilated those civilians, including children and infants perhaps.

It is a serious and realistic possibility that they abused and raped those civilians, and paraded those victims.

That is a "grown up" view of what Hamas are capable of.

Reserving judgement about the events pending evidence is one thing, but immediately trying to discredit the claims as propaganda as some have done is a different matter entirely.

Well, well, it has been confirmed that Joe Biden was not in a position to confirm this, as the White House has stated that he hasn't actually seen photos of people beheading Israeli babies.

Joe Biden has lied to the world on this matter. From now on, nothing Joe Biden says can be taken at face value.

He may believe it to be true, but it seems that he has no more evidence at this disposal than I do.

So could you please stop spreading disinformation, fake news. Actual news is fine, but it's only news when it can be confirmed and contrasted - otherwise, in an age when everyone has a camera on their phone, it is at best opinion.