Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

The world has got a whole lot more complex over the last 20 years- regimes that kill certain groups of innocent people purely because of their nationality or religion or ethnicity have exploded throughout the world.

I believe that we have to re-evaluate what is acceptable response now to these regimes because our current and past laws on this are out of date. How do you deal with organisations who advocate the death and destruction of whole nations and peoples?

It’s not as simple as “will someone think of the children” .

If it was acceptable for those with superior force to annahialte entire neighbourhoods because of a few rats running through the streets, how would you feel if the UK had acted in this way to Derry and other Northern Ireland towns throughout the troubles?

With the military might, budget and support that Israel has, if they cannot target Hamas without harming so many innocent Palestinians, they really should have a stop and think about what it is they are doing. Well, they know what they are doing and they know there's enough people like you who will give them a pass on that.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. It is entirely reasonable to ask why you accept those accounts.

And if you accept Hamas are capable of these atrocities, why this would be beyond the pale for them.

So you accept Hamas are capable of horrific acts.

Gunning down civilians in cold blood, with no apparent regard to age or gender or threat.

It is a serious and realistic possibility that they mutilated those civilians, including children and infants perhaps.

It is a serious and realistic possibility that they abused and raped those civilians, and paraded those victims.

That is a "grown up" view of what Hamas are capable of.

Reserving judgement about the events pending evidence is one thing, but immediately trying to discredit the claims as propaganda as some have done is a different matter entirely.

Well, well, it has been confirmed that Joe Biden was not in a position to confirm this, as the White House has stated that he hasn't actually seen photos of people beheading Israeli babies.

Joe Biden has lied to the world on this matter. From now on, nothing Joe Biden says can be taken at face value.

He may believe it to be true, but it seems that he has no more evidence at this disposal than I do.

So could you please stop spreading disinformation, fake news. Actual news is fine, but it's only news when it can be confirmed and contrasted - otherwise, in an age when everyone has a camera on their phone, it is at best opinion.

You target the message and show that that nation wants to co-exist. You dont' continually steal their land and property and effectively hold them under their siege.

Given Israels behavior, are Hamas not freedom fighters in the loosest definition of the term? Again, please don't misunderstand this as support for Hamas's actions, but rather acknowledgement of Israels.

Because, with respect to the part of your post I've repeated above, is that not what many in support of Israels action are effectively saying of Gaza?

So you have two groups saying the same thing, but one is probably the best supplied military on a per population basis, the other is a splinter group by comparison.

It is shades of the Warsaw Ghetto. Every time Israel acts in this way they remind me more and more of 1930s-1940s Germany.

Do you think the best thing to do would be to just remove the Jewish nation from the middle east?

There is some moral difference because of the warnings Israel gives.

But that is a very small point in the larger context of the tension and actions that exist in the region.

The deaths are vastly greater on the side of the Palestinians, and they are the people held under siege in Gaza. Israel knows the outcomes of its actions as surely as Hamas knows the outcome of theirs.

They're taking their orders from Allah.

We shouldn't assign them Western rationality.

You are not serious?

What concessions have Palestinians made? Eh, their land.

I would recommend Robert Fisk’s Great War for Civilization if you are interested in informing your opinion.

Also maybe read a little about Jewish religious law about praying at the Temple Mount.

Could you point out Hamas’ declaration of Gaza as a terrorist state or did you make that up?

I'm not comaring NI with this conflict so no need to ignore the point on that basis.

The post I was responding to suggested it was appropriate for countries experience uprisings to react with brute force as we are seeing here.

Ignoring the comparison of NI to Isreal/Palestine, as it wasn't made, that question was valid.

I'm not talking idealistic, I'm talking about recognizing the right of the Palestinians and the ignorance of Israel and that right and what this has meant for the region up to an including the acts of last weekend.

I'm not justifying those acts, I'm saying that Israel cannot be absolved from what their role has been even if for no other reason than to hold them accountable for those acts in the same way people expect Hamas to be held accountable for theirs.

Jeez, you have rained your horns in from your position of emphatic certainty to maybe just consider it a possibility it could have happened.