Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Banzai600 · 12-10-2023 12:57pm

BOTH ISRAEL & HAMAS are where they are now due to no compromise / negotiations etc , who's at fault?..............I cannot answer and neither can anyone here. The west didnt help at all, as usual. Probably made it worse?

The atrocities carried out on innocent ppl by hamas are indefensible as is the steam rolling massacre of thousands of innocent ppl in Gaza by Israel. I dread to think how many in Gaza will be have been killed once this is over. Total wipeout ? FRANCE24 reckon 1400+ dead in Gaza thus far, and around 6500 injured. The numbers are a lot higher you can bet, how many are hamas, very little id say. This is a mass rampage by Israel becuase of the resources they have to hand.. And then on the other hand, you'll have more Israeli's killed / injured due to the counter rockets / bombings going back at them....

FYI, Ch4 debunked videos and tweets on a report , so be careful what you think is true. There are ppl out there stirring the pot, with their own agendas , making it even worse for both sides. But newspapers and media sites ran with the fake news from both sides which wasnt true yesterday.

All i see on the usual news sites are green lights for Israel to keep going! And NATO saying Israel should use "proportionality" - WTF !! How do you use proportion in an area 40 kms X 12 kms with 2.3 million ppl inside that tiny piece of land ? Its barbaric. Israel want revenge, i get it, but this isnt the way. guerliia warefare , the innocents suffer the most, always.

i thought with all we had seen in the world over recent yrs and not so distant past, with war etc , but this is a turning point in history, no doubt about it and i think its going to get a lot worse.

NATO: NATO countries on Thursday told Israel's defence minister they stood by his country after the attack by Hamas, but urged his forces to respond with "proportionality", the alliance said. Their statement came after 1,354 Palestinians were reported to have been killed and 6,409 wounded in Israeli air strikes since Saturday, the Gaza health ministry said. Follow our live blog for all the latest developments. All times are Paris time (GMT+2).

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231012-%F0%9F%94%B4-live-israel-announces-large-scale-strike-on-gaza-un-calls-for-aid-for-palestinians

An Ri rua · 12-10-2023 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227870#Comment_121227870

It explicitly says that indiscriminate bombing attacks on Gaza amount to collective punishment. Collective punishment is a war crime.

My post is in direct response to your strenuous efforts to fail to crystallise, since your post interactions with Donald Trump and I, since you started posting on this thread, that Israeli actions in closing off Gaza amount to collective punishment.

What more legal proofs do you require other than the guardian of that international law clearly stating that Israel is currently committing war crimes (and continues to be held unaccountable for similar atrocities in recent decades).

There is little point in attempting to balance your posts if you do not acknowledge the depth of war criminality on both sides. One being substantially more powerful militarily, but light years more powerful via economic and social powers. The solution lies in a distribution of thoae economic and civil society structure advantages. Strangely, bombing hospitals....not so much.

TedBundysDriver · 12-10-2023 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227834#Comment_121227834

Yes it is important actually. Language and facts matter. If Biden is willing to lie about that then you have every right to question anything else he has told us. We all know politicians lie but it's rare to see an American president get caught out so frequently as Biden making stuff up.

Hummingbird Project · 12-10-2023 1:05pm

Good to see the Irish Times with insight into both Sinn Féin’s agitating the separatists movement in Spain, and the division in the EU on Israel. Both interesting articles.

SF backs many separatist movements including in Canada and many other nations I was not aware of. Spains government is in coalition with Catalans, hence the Spanish stance on Israel. They are trying to keep their own nation together by appeasing the terrorists/separatists.

Quote from it:

“Sinn Fein portrays its foreign sympathies as leftist, anti-colonial and even revolutionary, yet Scottish and Catalan independence are utterly bourgeois causes, with no colonial context and backed by centre-right parties”

Long Sean Silver · 12-10-2023 1:10pm

reading this thread it's clear some people will NEVER move on. unbelievable as it seems here in the 21st Century some folk are stuck in the Old Testament!

Good Lord! (no offence intended to our Jewish or Muslim friends) it's time to move on folks.

TedBundysDriver · 12-10-2023 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227943#Comment_121227943

And that's got what to do with the thread title?

blanch152 · 12-10-2023 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227927#Comment_121227927

Legal proofs? The opinion of some bystanders? The UN has not expressed an opinion, some experts have.

All I have done is point to some legal defences available to Israel to demonstrate that their actions do not amount to war crimes. There is no such ambiguity around the actions of Hamas.

All through this thread, posters have been attempting to label Israeli actions as war crimes, while ignoring the actions of Hamas. I am just pointing out the legalities.

You naive solution ignores the reality that the clear objective of Hamas (and presumably of those in Ireland and elsewhere that give it succour) is the elimination of Israel and the Jews "from the river to the sea". Until that changes, no peaceful solution is possible.

12-10-2023 1:13pm

Reports in that Israel has attacked airports in both Damascus and Aleppo, rendering both out of service.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1712433956002415024

An Ri rua · 12-10-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227981#Comment_121227981

Ah would you stop. What guff.

Hummingbird Project · 12-10-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227794#Comment_121227794

What is Irelands position? That we back keeping up financial support to Gaza? I wholeheartedly support that position. I do however, not advocate the Irish nation not flying the Israeli flag in wake of the terrorist murders.

Because I believe it is based on Nazi Germanys hatred of Jews. I would like to learn where this anti-Jewish sentiment was conceived in Ireland becuse it is far wide and prevalent up to the highest corridors of power in Ireland.

It’s based on De Veleras first inconsiderate stance towards the Jews and secondly some sort of supposed anti-colonial project. It has nothing to do with human rights and is poisonous and evil in its source.

Snooker Loopy · 12-10-2023 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227834#Comment_121227834

In one sense the method by which babies are murdered isn't important. Murdering a baby by any means is obviously grotesque. Murdering a baby by any means is still the murder of a baby, which is incredibly shocking and repulsive.

But in another sense, the propaganda sense, it is very important. This story that 40 babies were beheaded is being used effectively as the pretext to inflict genocide. Beheading a baby would be the ultimate mark of savagery. It's pretty much the last taboo of human behaviour. It's almost impossible to do something more grotesque than beheading babies. The idea that people would do such a thing is almost uniquely shocking and repulsive. It is the sort of story that breaks down the world's resistance to the genocide of a people.

But we don't have real, verifiable evidence that the story is true, we've had a lot of drip drip, hearsay, misspeaking, words that are vague and can be taken in different ways. That's how propaganda works. If the story is true, it should be very easy to verify. You bring in a group of reputable journalists from the international press who are not connected to each other, and reputable international observers, and you show them the evidence first hand, with their own eyes.

This isn't remotely an argument that Hamas "really aren't so bad". Hamas are f-ing appalling. We know that.

It is an argument to say that truth in journalism matters. Genocide should never be perpetrated. History tells us that when genocide happens it always happens because of propaganda.

supermans ghost · 12-10-2023 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227313#Comment_121227313

Are you really though? cos you didn’t appear that way to me based on your earlier posts in this thread, calling another poster ‘f*cking stupid’ is not the action of a rational calm individual in my book and and then you have the temerity to complain about the ‘state of the thread’. Oh well.

Anyway, I’m certain you’ll have have the last word as fits your personality, so I’ll leave you to it, but remember “words matter.

Raoul Duke III · 12-10-2023 1:23pm

Damascus and Aleppo airports bombed by the Israelis. Interesting development.

Raoul Duke III · 12-10-2023 1:25pm

Iran....Syria.....Russia.

Interesting nexus.

boetstark · 12-10-2023 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227854#Comment_121227854

I don't think he said that.

In my opinion the point being made is that Palestinians have been offered ample opportunities for their own state by Israel and the Un General Assembly in 1948 and once again in Oslo accord 1993.

Each time they have broken the agreement and to add fat to fire they elect a terrorist shower of scum in 2006 that actually want Israel destroyed.

You tell me how you deal with that neighbour.

Free Palestine my ass.

SafeSurfer · 12-10-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227598#Comment_121227598

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin

Happens on both sides unfortunately.

Gatling · 12-10-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227985#Comment_121227985

Pretty regular occurrence

TheValeyard · 12-10-2023 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228093#Comment_121228093

Rumours Iranian arms shipments were inbound. Forced to turn back.

boetstark · 12-10-2023 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228012#Comment_121228012

It's a fair question that you cannot or will not answer.

Israel gave 12 hours notice to civilians in Gaza of what was to come. Which is alot more than was afforded to Israeli civilians by those scum.

Why didn't they go to Northern border , Rafah crossing and wait it out in Egypt.

Even Egypt won't let them in , I wonder why.

ittakestwo · 12-10-2023 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226876#Comment_121226876

This is a war between two nations. One nation has aerplanes tanks and a huge Army. The other side doesn't. And can not import any of the above. It is completely lopsided. Options are fight gorilla or not fight.

But their reason to fight is as legitimate as you can get. Their nation has no freedom. We in the free west would not accept not having freedom and would fight for it too.

TedBundysDriver · 12-10-2023 1:37pm

On a human level if you’re moved by the slaughter of civilians in Israel you must be moved by what is happening in Gaza, the place is being raised to the ground, where can civilians go that is safe, can’t imagine what will happen to civilians when the ground invasion starts.

I do find it curious that everyone seems to be able to rightfully call Hamas out for the murdering scumbags that they are but certain posters refuse to be even a little bit critical of Israel's murderous over the top response. It's almost like they don't value Palestinian lives to the same degree actually i'd say if they where honest and just admitted it they'd get more respect than attempting to hide it.

12-10-2023 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227606#Comment_121227606

”light on clothing” I suppose you think she was asking for it.

You skulked away for a day when you were unable to condem the murders of civilians by Hamas terrorists last weekend.

You are displaying some seriously intolerant attitudes.

Gatling · 12-10-2023 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228098#Comment_121228098

That's the usual especially at Damascus airport or it's parameter

ittakestwo · 12-10-2023 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228113#Comment_121228113

It is clear from some in the media that palestinians lives are not as important.

SafeSurfer · 12-10-2023 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228093#Comment_121228093

Pretty regular all right. How about apologising for calling me a liar and admitting you were wrong?

An Ri rua · 12-10-2023 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228107#Comment_121228107

Egypt won't potentially let in 2m people. I wonder why.

Israel blockades Gaza and then tells civilians to leave? Be honest.

Sky News has shown the Rafah crossing being BOMBED only a few hundred yards away. Be honest and abre los ojos.

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-strikes-near-rafah-border-crossing-with-egypt-after-telling-gazans-to-flee-through-it-12981936

Are you just badly informed or genuinely disingenuous?

TedBundysDriver · 12-10-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228133#Comment_121228133

Hamas don't have a strategy, they are Iran's attack dog to do stuff the Iranians don't have the sands to do themselves. If Iranian soldiers flew into Israel and carried this out Tehran would be nuked. If Israel had any sense they'd shore up the Gaza border and double down on helping the Palestinians so they turn against Hamas whilst directing their anger at Iran and Iran only but they are falling right into the Iranian trap, blinded by anger and into an unwinnable position.

dennis72 · 12-10-2023 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228110#Comment_121228110

There was no fight, well armed men breaking in family residences and a music festival 8am was an indiscriminate planned mass butchering of as many innocents as possible.

Despicable behaviour celebrated under a Palestinian flag some choose to show here.

Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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