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Galway Ring Road- are there better ways to solve traffic?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    And too many drivers have no compunction about ignoring the existence of the cycle lanes and just treating them as a wider section of road to allow them to take corners at a higher speed.




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I was thinking that 'cope' is a euphemism for actually doing little or nothing beyond putting in roundabouts that make the situation worse, so announce an improvement to take the roundabout away and put the road back as it was - terrible.

    Why do people in Galway accept this nonsense. Oh, wait - there is a Galway bypass coming and will solve the city centre traffic jams. No wait, it is the new Galway Ring Road, so no need to improve the public transport.

    Galway cannot have a Ring Road without a significant part under the bay, hopefully in a tunnel - But perhaps GCC has not noticed that yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,965 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    I took that photo on a Digital Camera many moons ago now .Think it was taken August 2009. The Infamous Doughiska Road was done in 2008. Has bus shelters added since. It is car gridlocked now at peak hours now. It still needs a proper cycle facilities and dedicated bus priority at either end of it. Galway City Council gave themselves a 'D' rating for this Cycle facility in the Galway Transportation Study 2016 (so it actually really failed if they gave themselves a 'D')



  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭GBXI


    Where did any of the stakeholders 'confirm' that building the new road will make traffic worse in the city?



  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭GBXI


    Ring road is just a casual term - you are being pedantic. Same as someone calling the M50 a ring road. There is no need to build a tunnel under the bay and you know that.

    Also, I have never once heard someone say that the new road will solve Galway city center's traffic problems. But it is expected it will make it much better for many people. The people who make these decisions know right well that the answer is to have less private vehicles in the city centre by way of improved public transport, pedestrian access, and cycling infrastructure - while also increasing the number of people living and working within the city centre area. This is why Augustin Hill is a key development in Galway, as is twin-tracking to Oranmore (ideally Athenry), and also the plans for the Sandy Road development. But the new road would be a huge addition for Galway in so many ways, including helping with advancing city centre public transport options and allowing Galway city the room to grow over the next 50 years.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    The planning submission prepared by Arup/Galway City Council/Galway County Council shows expected traffic volumes for the various scenarios and forecasts that volumes on many roads within the city will increase if the Ring Road is built. It also forecasts that there will be no meaningful move away from cars to public transport and active modes of travel; between 0% and 1% if I remember correctly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Don Juan II



    Page 91 of this document (or section 2.4.9.3).

    This document is the planning application document that ARUP were paid approx €30,000,000 for. It's publicly available for everyone to read. This document was submitted by Galway County/City councils as part of the planning application for the RR. Gawlay City/County Councils are the key "stakeholders".

    Here's the table in question. In 2012 the modal share was measured and I've highlighted it in the first row below. If the RR is built and Galway City/County Councils implement the full Galway Transport Strategy (GTS) all the way to 2039 then we get more journeys by car, less walking, less cycling and 1.1% more on Public Transport (PT).


    @GBXI - you asked: "Where did any of the stakeholders 'confirm' that building the new road will make traffic worse in the city?"

    Does this answer your question?

    Post edited by Don Juan II on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,714 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Only seeing this question now so do you still need my response or did the posts from @Unrealistic and @Don Juan II provide enough clarity for you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭GBXI


    At no point in the plans for this road development does it state "that building the new road will make traffic worse in the city". In fact, it states the exact opposite many time throughout the plans. What you have presented above is misinformation. Either you are being cynical or you just do not understand what the proposal is stating. Here is the context to the figures you posted.

    In summary, the project will take private cars out of the city centre. Here it is below, highlighted.


    It will push private cars and HGVs onto the outer ring roads and away from the city centre. Galway will grow in population by 2039 and more people means more cars. But with the new road, these cars will not be in the city centre and the new road will release the current over capacity that is currently on the main roads of Galway.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, the opening year will not be 2024, will it?

    GCC have decided not to do anything until the GRR opens, which is likely to be not before 2034. So PT and active travel will either wait until then or GCC needs to start planning for it without the GRR.

    I suspect they will wait until it is built. They could not even open a cycle path in Salthill along the prom because it would close a few parking spaces.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    To be fair, thats not 100% true

    GCC are moving ahead with a lot of AT & PT changes

    • Cross city link Bus Connects
    • Dublin Road Bus Connects
    • Protected bike lanes on Ballybane & Castlepark roads (up to Dutch standards)
    • Permeability works all over the city
    • Extensive rollout of pedestrian crossings
    • and so on

    The biggest issue is the poor ambition and slow progress

    One example, the Dublin Rd works are not due to start until 2028, thats just nuts considering they were part of the 2016 GTS

    Where GCC really falls down is fear. Fear of doing things properly, fear of doing them faster, fear of removing car access/priority. The NTA are forcing a change here though, as seen with the Ballybane/Castlepark rd plans.

    The current list of projects under the GTS will proceed regardless of the GCRR. The GMATS, when its released towards the end of the year, will add more projects to that and will, in all likelihood, remove the GCRR as part of the strategy. If that happens we should see a ramping up of the pace of change.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    FYI, those improvements will happen regardless of the GCRR therefore saying the GCRR will allow for those things is just rubbish



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,965 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    This mode share is exactly what one would expect in an Induced Demand scenario + as you said the population of the City is projected to grow. ARUP are really just basically covering themselves by including information like this so that in 20yrs time they can have recourse to say - we told ye so. With these mode share projections by 2050 with the GCRR and the current GTS we will be back to where we started. The PT% and Cycle% with the GCRR and the current GTS for 2039 are really poor for a modern European City.



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Don Juan II


    I'm going to re-quote you 😃 ... section 2.4.9.3 above.

    @[Deleted User] has pointed out, these are happening without the RR. They are part of the GTS.

    And the last sentence ... just stating this doesn't make it true. The data presented in the table contradicts this sentence! "will result in an increase in sustainable travel"! From the table, this is clearly not true. Sustainable travel decreases according to the data presented in the table.



  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭GBXI


    They'll only be properly effective when they do happen with a new outer road though.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're going to have to explain how a bus priority measure that removes car traffic from the city center will only be effective once a RR opens because there won't be any cars on the cross city link anyway so a ring road would have zero bearing whether it exists or not but maybe you can explain it.

    Also curious as to how a ring road would increase the effectiveness of bike lanes. I may change my opinion on the ring road if you have a good explanation as to how that would be possible



  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Norteño


    Something tells me that you're going to be losing some land if this gets built; having read through a fair few of your posts, surely that must be the case?

    If you actually think that Galway's traffic plans will be solved with some bicycle lanes and taxing people out of their cars, then you must be smoking whatever Eamon Ryan's on..


    Here's an idea;


    Built the flippin' ring road.

    Properly.

    And then simultaneously sort the city centre out with bus and bicycle lanes.


    Your man there doesn't need figures to show you that; a child with two crayons could work that out, even if one of them was stuck up his nose.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    GCC could not organise a bun fight in a bakery, or a piss-up in a brewery.

    They planned a cycleway along the prom in Salthill and had to abandon it following a few protests from a few motorists.

    The GCRR will solve nothing, because there will still be traffic jams on the N17 in Claregalway, and Bohermore, and all the other regular stars of the Morning Ireland traffic reports every morning.

    The City Centre is the problem, and that needs solving now, not next decade. I do not think GCC are capable of doing anything about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Limerick74




This discussion has been closed.
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