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General British politics discussion thread

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I dunno, Abbott's expulsion was truly well deserved. Unfortunately I suspect she, much like Corbyn, would be unwilling to admit that and until such time they just can't let her back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,986 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Whether they thinks it's deserved or not, there's 2 figures in London politics who COULD galvinise an alternative to Labour. Corbyn is clearly not getting back in, and Abott is even more popular in her constituency than Corbyn is in his.

    Sensible politically if that's what they're about.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't think it is sensible politics to suggest their behaviour is acceptable in the Labour ranks. That's precisely the image and reputation they are trying to get away from. It would be one thing if she had apologised and admitted fault, but she just railed against the expulsion.

    Like, you just cannot let this woman back into the party if you want your leadership to be taken at all seriously.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Alternatives mean nothing with FPTP. Personally, I think Abbott should remain out.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,986 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    I think around a third of the electorate in London are BAME.

    The biggest media outlet for British Black people ran a poll asking amongst their readership what effect Abbott not being allowed to stand at next election for Labour, 80% said they'd consider how they voted at the next election.

    Blair had Benn, Corbyn, Grant, Abbott, etc railing against him at every turn and knew the right decision politically was to keep them in the party.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Abbott wasn't kicked out for "railing against" Starmer though so that seems like a pretty meaningless comparison.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The first sentence in the article:

    EIGHTY PERCENT of Black Brits say they would consider how they vote if veteran MP Diane Abbott is prevented from standing for Labour.

    Here's the "poll":

    There's no mention of how many people were polled, what the question was or anything. Extremely poor journalism, even by British bog standards.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,986 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,986 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    I personally don't mind, I don't vote in the UK anymore, all I'm saying is she's hugely significant politically in London. She stands as independent she wins, Corbyn does the same, put up other candidates and even if they don't win, they could stop Labour winning in lots of seats, even under FPTP.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,666 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Her comments were stupid and sadly mirrored a fairly common belief in racial history/politics but I would feel fairly annoyed and suspicious too if I was her given the amount of creeps and perverts going around Westminster doing much worse and surviving.

    At this stage I couldn't care who is in or out. Its all just so tedious and boring little family squabbles.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I disagree. She might be significant in her seat and in nearby areas but that's about it, if even that.

    You're assuming that people would just meekly follow them and stop voting Labour. They'll just end up with Lib Dems or Tories if they split the vote.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,986 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    The poll in The Voice wasn't her constituency, it was Black voter's generally.

    Regardless, you might be right, but as per my initial point, I personally believe they'd be wise not to just take for granted that BAME voters will continue to support them.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Clearly, what was the point? Because you are the one who brought up Blair keeping politicians who railed against him in the party. You said nothing about him keeping locally popular politicians who have a track record of questionable comments and who committed a gross act of stupidity and refuses to accept the decision to punish them in the party.

    There is a route back for her that she is steadfastly refusing to take. And i'm sorry, but the idea that Corbyn and Abbott could get some other people to run in seats in London and win them from labour or even significantly disrupt Labour's vote is the height of fancy.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    In theory it could even mean they would be more likely to vote Labour!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It was but the magazine itself didn't know how to present it and we've no idea how it was conducted and on what scale so it's of dubious merit.

    That said, I do think taking certain demographics votes based on history for granted could lead to a very bad outcome. The choice isn't just Labour or Conservative. It's also whether or not to bother going to the polls at all.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,986 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    And whether they have the correct paperwork when they get to the polling station after the Tories have done their best to minimise the Labour vote.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,986 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    By-elections today in Tamworth (ex-Chris Pincher, Tory, 20K majority) and Mid-Bedfordshire (ex-Nadine Dorries, Tory, 24K majority).

    Tamworth looks very likely to flip to Labour with current odds of 1/4. Mid-Bedfordshire looks a 3-way battle with the Tories marginally favoured to hang on. Seems a bit of local party anger brewing here with Labour and the Liberals upset that the Liberals and Labour haven't stood aside to allow their party to easily take the seat. So the Tories may retain it with a vastly reduced majority on a split vote.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Mid-Beds the perfect example of why FPTP (which is a terrible and misleading name for the system beyond anything else) is such a crap voting method.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,666 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I see Rishi has run away to Israel on bi-election day.

    Has previous for this when he ran and hid from the Boris Johnson disciplinary vote.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It will take a while to move their aircraft carrier from the South China Sea to the East Mediterranean.

    Maybe he will leave it where it is or get permission from the USA Marines to relocate it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    I was wondering what the hell you are talking about, but then I realized that the BBC documentary is being repeated.

    HMS Queen Elizabeth is currently in Sweden and HMS Prince of Wales is in the States. The show you’re watching is three years old.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Ollie Rupert


    Meanwhile, in other news, London has recaptured its crown as Europe’s largest stock market from Paris, lifted by surging crude oil prices.

    www.bnnbloomberg.ca/london-regains-europe-s-stock-market-crown-lifted-by-oil-surge-1.1986661


    Brexit, eh ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Welcome, new poster.

    What does this post mean, do you not want people to debate your point? Dismissing any pushback in advance suggests you aren't really suited to the concept of message boards. A blog might be better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Ollie Rupert


    I'd love a debate.

    Here's the thing.

    Brexit was meant to bring widescale job losses in the City of London and a gradual diminuation of the London Stock Exchange as a financial power.

    None of which has happened.

    And none of this news today has been reported in the Irish media. Pound to a penny if the story was reversed and Paris was trumping London it would be in all the financial pages.

    Lots going wrong with the UK economy but Brexit ? Far too early for a rational judgement considering the prism of the pandemic and Ukraine/energy prices.

    And soon we'll have Starmernomics. That'll be interesting ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,420 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I'm not sure that this is quite the slam-dunk you think it is, Ollie. You're celebrating London nudging back above Paris as a result of oil price fluctuations over which the UK has no control at all. Prior to the Brexit referendum London was a vastly more significant financial centre than Paris — 800 on the global financial centres index compared to Paris at 675. Seven years later, they're neck and neck, largely due to London's decline rather than to Paris's rise, and you're reduced to pointing to a modest uptick that has nothing to do with Brexit to vindicate Brexit. Ollie, it's only because of Brexit that the UK has to fret about whether London is ahead of Paris at all.

    It's not being much noticed in the media because it's unimportant. Oil prices fluctuating is important; the effect of fluctuating oil prices on the relative rankings of the London and Paris financial markets, not so much.

    While Brexit didn't bring widescale job losses in the City — only about 7,000 jobs were lost — it certainly did bring the gradual diminution of the LSE as a financial power. Your own preoccupation with London nudging ahead of Paris this week is evidence of this. Prior to Brexit, London was in a superleague with just New York and Singapore; now it jostles in the second division with Paris, Hong Kong, San Francisco and Beijing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I have been observing the results on BBC One this morning. Labour have won both bi-elections with huge swings in vote share in each constituency.

    Tamworth had a 36% turnout for the bi-election. Mid Bedfordshire had a 44% turnout with the results of the vote coming up within the last 30 minutes.

    Prof. John Curtis on the BBC is predicting that there will be a huge collapse incoming for the Tories when the UK's GE takes place next year.

    What exciting times for British Labour and what bad timing this government has been when it's being run by the Tories. And it is a spectacularly bad omen for Rishi Sunak on how he is doing in the job as PM at the moment. If the majority of the British public really have had enough of the Tories after going through 14 years in power next year; this election could be a huge moment for Keir Starmer and Labour if the results like this going to be repeated in every constituency right across the majority of the UK next year.

    I would not be surprised in hearing that election could be a bigger historic result when Tony Blair went into 10 Downing St. The optics look really strong for Labour to have really good results if the bi-elections are conveying similar feelings in their own part of the UK.

    How this effect the other parties battling for seats in the election is anyone's guess. If the Tories get a huge pummelling in the election. They will know that 14 years of power will have grave consequences for your team if the public is clearly fed up with how they are running the country into the ground within a matter of seconds every single day. They need to be prepared for a huge swingeing cut in their vote share when the elections hit them next year. If they keep screwing up their roles while in government between now and 2024; the British public will go to vote them out en masse when the push comes to shove. The Tories only have themselves to blame if they keep up this farce of a government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,666 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Mid Beds is some result give that there was a viable Lib Dem option in a rural conservative area.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,420 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Yes. The Tories were hoping that the anti-Tory swing would be split between Labour and the Lib Dems and this would enable them to cling to the seat on a minority of the vote. They'll be particularly disappointed that the anti-Tory swing was pretty evenly split between Labour and the Lib Dems but was so massive that the Tories lost the seat anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    I know the Tories are toxic at the moment but I wonder just how much of that vote is a result of the utter disdain Dorries has shown for constituents as she sought to line her pockets.



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