Energy infrastructure

Capt'n Midnight · 05-10-2023 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189728#Comment_121189728

Max of 75% non-synchronous. Which is wind + solar + interconnectors + batteries. But

The remaining 25% needs to be synchronous usually thermal or hydro (including Turlough Hill. In future it should include synchronous compensators. At times we've come close to exporting this 25% over the interconnectors so the rest of the demand was matched by renewables.

There's also rules on spinning reserve and having high inertia generators on load for local voltage and frequency control.

Dont Be at It · 05-10-2023 8:25pm

Yep, good detail👍 I was keeping it high level out of laziness 😅

specialbyte · 05-10-2023 11:45pm

In this document there's great detail like this chart on the current EirGrid constraints and their plans towards 2030 for adapting to support more renewals etc. It's worth a read if you're into the details.

Apogee · 12-10-2023 11:16pm

Some progress on the Greenlink interconnector with delivery of 4x transformers to Wexford.

https://www.offshore-energy.biz/siemens-energy-delivers-grid-transformers-for-ireland-wales-interconnector/

josip · 12-10-2023 11:43pm

For anyone who wants to keep track of the offshore cable laying, the Cable Laying vessel is "Connector" from the Jan de Nul Group and can be tracked on Marine Traffic.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:465085/mmsi:253751000/imo:9435480/vessel:CONNECTOR

Capt'n Midnight · 15-10-2023 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230383#Comment_121230383

Also on https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9435480

Wave forecast here http://archive.met.ie/forecasts/5day-ireland.asp

19-10-2023 1:30pm

Demolition of Lanesboro power plant clears final hurdle

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/green-light-for-demolition-of-local-power-station-231310

medoc · 21-10-2023 11:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121258702#Comment_121258702

End of an era for the town. West Offaly got a temporary reprieve for at least 4 years while the new peaking plant is in place.

Sam Russell · 22-10-2023 10:56am

I have noticed of late, we are importing electricity rather than exporting. Is this by choice or strategy or cost?

josip · 23-10-2023 9:29pm

I noticed the 83 MW Tuallabeg solar farm under construction from the M11 at the weekend. I hadn't seen it before now. Some panels already mounted by the looks of it, frames for all the others looks in place. Absolutely torturous process for it, seems to have been in the works for 10 years. I think it's scheduled to come online next year.

https://archive.ph/VhIFt

DumbBrunette · 24-10-2023 7:30am

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/10/23/green-light-for-upgrade-of-mayo-key-electricity-network/

It only took Bord Pleanala 16 months(!), but they've granted permission for the North Connacht 110kv project.

25-10-2023 5:23pm

These folks are doing really cool stuff with eirgrid data

https://twitter.com/IrishEnergyBot/status/1717203400142520425

Brief_Lives · 26-10-2023 11:12am

Has anyone come across these lads yet?

https://www.photoncycle.com/

Photoncycle develops technology that can place surplus electricity from rooftop PV and the grid into long term storage located next to the house, using an electrolizer. Green hydrogen produced from water and electricity is stored as a solid in Photoncycle’s developed storage system. The energy is released upon demand to meet electricity and heating requirements in the house and at the grid level.

gjim · 26-10-2023 7:34pm

No and I can never see that idea making sense. Roundtrip hydrogen efficiency via electrolysis and fuel cell is about 30-40% - less half that of batteries. The components will also cost a fortune - particularly the electrolyzer, nevermind their unique storage system.

The problem it's supposed to solve has been solved already - it's called battery storage - and unlike this idea, is a real technology which is already supported by enormous manufacturing capacity globally. Global battery storage production is currently nearly 50GWh per year, growing about 50% each year. To put that into perspective, by 2030 we will be adding more battery storage capacity PER YEAR that there currently exists in the world.

The only possible use for hydrogen in the energy transformation is for long-term seasonal storage using salt caverns and the like (and even then I'm a skeptic - nobody has yet demonstrated an actual working full-scale example). It's a highly warming gas with a GWP100 of 12 (recent Nature article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-023-00857-8) and it's a fiendishly difficult gas to contain without leakage. It's a dead technology (hydrogen has been the "next big thing" since the 19th century) which like the nuclear industry has tried to hitch itself to the success of renewables to use the climate crisis to suck money out of gullible governments.

Tarant · 31-10-2023 1:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287800#Comment_121287800

https://www.homepowersolutions.de/en/product/

I do think there are use cases for this where it is not possible to get any grid connection, remote island, mountain tops. Battery will get you a week, maybe even a month. Say for 500kWh cost you 50k-100k€. Picea can get you 1500kWh for the same money

31-10-2023 5:37am

Hydrogen storage at Kinsale

https://www.businesspost.ie/article/energy-trio-plan-e500m-hydrogen-storage-facility-at-kinsale-gas-field/

cnocbui · 01-11-2023 2:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287800#Comment_121287800

You are missing that one vital ingredient that nullifies your tech focused view, and that's cost. Affordable high performance batteries are about on par with fusion as an unachieved energy holy grail.

Quoting big numbers for batteries connected to grids is also missing the point that these are little more than giant capacitors used to smooth the long wavelength ripple of intermittency we have because of the increased use of renewables. They are not a solution to the storage problem and given we have been pursuing the better battery for a lot longer than fusion, I have no faith whatsoever that any battery tech will deliver affordable grid storage.

Batteries are an intellectually clean and perfect solution akin to renewables, but are just the same in the real world applicability where the performance numbers, cost and practicality don't stack up.

In order to decarbonise just Ireland's grid, transport and industry using renewables, would require one trillion Tesla powerwall batteries, according to the ESB analysis. While hydrogen has it's problems and I am sceptical of it's practicality and cost, I am even more sceptical of battery storage costs and the practicalities of their necessary resource chains ever getting within cooee of the cost performance required.

bk · 01-11-2023 2:59pm

Quoting big numbers for batteries connected to grids is also missing the point that these are little more than giant capacitors used to smooth the long wavelength ripple of intermittency we have because of the increased use of renewables. They are not a solution to the storage problem and given we have been pursuing the better battery for a lot longer than fusion, I have no faith whatsoever that any battery tech will deliver affordable grid storage

This is simply not true, grid scale batteries are being used and rolled out all over the world!

I’m talking about systems with 4 to 6 hours capacity, not seasonal obviously.

These are extremely helpful as they can help flatten out the evening peak and they replace the need for open cycle gas turbines, which are less efficient, thus more polluting, then closed cycle gas turbines.

New LFP gird scale battery installs are now significantly cheaper than new gas peaker OCGT plants. Which is great news.

cnocbui · 01-11-2023 7:26pm

"This is simply not true, grid scale batteries are being used and rolled out all over the world!

I’m talking about systems with 4 to 6 hours capacity, not seasonal obviously.

These are extremely helpful as they can help flatten out the evening peak and they replace the need for open cycle gas turbines, which are less efficient, thus more polluting, then closed cycle gas turbines.

New LFP gird scale battery installs are now significantly cheaper than new gas peaker OCGT plants. Which is great news."You are describing 'long wavelength' capacitors, not grid scale batteries.

There is the usual eco nonsense behind that Australian green lobby group that came up with the paper claiming you can replace gas turbines with batteries because they are equivalent; they are not. Batteries are not a power source. Like interconnectors, they are hugely expensive intermediaries for conveying power from a real source. A battery can provide power so long as there is a source of power to charge it from, which if your grid is heavily renewables reliant, is not remotely a given.

4 hours of grid backup is meaningless in terms of dunkelflauts and long period failures in renewable sources.

Batteries are not remotely comparable or a replacement for gas turbines which can generate power for a lot longer than 4 hours and can tide a grid over a long term renwables outage.

bk · 01-11-2023 8:02pm

Batteries are not remotely comparable or a replacement for gas turbines which can generate power for a lot longer than 4 hours and can tide a grid over a long term renwables outage.

There are broadly two types of "gas turbines" OCGT and CCGT. OCGT are what are called gas peakers. They are plants which are fast to start up, but are inefficient and thus much more expensive to run (use more gas). Typically you only want to run gas peaker plants for a short time until you can get the more efficient CCGT plants up and running and take over from the gas peakers, because they use less gas to produce the same power, thus cheaper to run and less polluting.

LFP grid scale battery storage does a great job of replacing these dirty and expensive gas peaker plants.

Yes, you still need the CCGT plants for longer duration running, but it is great to be able to eliminate the less efficient and more dirty gas peaker plants from the grid. A big step in the right direction.

Again new LFP Batteries plants are cheaper then gas peaker plants and are replacing gas peakers in new developments all over the world.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-11-2023 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121311793#Comment_121311793

Worrying about dunkelflauts is meaningless until 2050.

Until then we can use months worth of current emissions.

Right now we only have enough renewables for 1/3 of annual demand. So you're kinda asking the impossible.

Until there's a lot more synchronous compensators we still need high inertial generators for local grid stability near the large cities, and at present that means fossil fuel. See Week 44 2023 Weekly Operational Constraints Update - the rules for our grid.

Batteries allow you to move from the current system of always on gas turbines running at max 2/3rd's output to allow you to ramp up to full power in seconds to a system where gas turbines are off but can easily startup (10 minutes) while batteries are taking the slack. Batteries also allow Fast Frequency Response, in less than the blink of an eye. It's like the way cars are going Stop/Start rather than idling at the lights.

( For scheduled generator outages see also All Island Committed Outage Plan 2023 , All Island Committed Outage Plan 2024 , All Island Provisional Outage Plan 2025 , All Island Provisional Outage Plan 2026 )

getoutadodge · 02-11-2023 12:53pm

First time I came across this concept. Would seem to make the storage problem solvable on a local level supplanting battery storage or large hydro like the Silvermines proposal. What's the catch?

https://spectrum.ieee.org/gravity-energy-storage-will-show-its-potential-in-2021

josip · 02-11-2023 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314617#Comment_121314617

The catch would be that that article was written in Jan 21 and only now have they started commissioning their first commercial deployment.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230801653396/en/Energy-Vault-Announces-Commencement-of-Commissioning-of-World

The share price does not augur well

getoutadodge · 02-11-2023 1:33pm

Share price aside is there a technical problem?

It seem so simple ..(using gravity)... that it would make more complex and costly systems like hydro, battery or compressed air etc redundant?

bk · 02-11-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314772#Comment_121314772

It normally comes down to simple economics.

Is it cheaper to build and operate than the other competing technologies?

I would guess that the engineering to build a massive crane tower that can consistently and reliably lift and drop massive heavy blocks for decades is extremely difficult and likely expensive.

Hopefully in time they can bring down the costs, but that is to be seen.

We have a lot of competing storage technologies, it is basically a race between them all to see which can scale up the fastest and bring costs down the fastest to meet the demand.

josip · 02-11-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314772#Comment_121314772

If all was as ideal as they portrayed in Q1 2021, then I wouldn't expect the share price to have tanked in between. So for me the share price collapse is indicative of commercial problems, possibly/probably brought about by the technology not being as simple as portrayed. Also, they seem to be using concrete for their mass now instead of earth-friendly materials and Cemex.