Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Not so much Hamas dictating Israeli response but Israel recognising that there’s will be high civilian casualties with their approach.

Netanyahu doesn't give 2 figs about civilian casualties, he is basically Vilos Cohaagen in Total Recall.

He cares about the optics of the body bags of Israeli soldiers if he embarks on the folly of a full ground invasion.

Questions are starting to be asked in Israel, about how exactly the South was left abandoned when Netanyahu himself was told personally an attack was imminent.

Look this is ridiculous! You responded to my post in a civil reasonable fashion. Its unfair catching me off guard like that. Anyway have a good weekend. BTW and completely off topic is anyone else getting pissed off with all these businesses advertising on radio jumping on the current rugby bandwagon. " watch Andy Farrell and the boys in green from the comfort of your new sofa, only €2999, while stocks last!

Hamas now claiming 13 hostages have been killed due to airstrikes .

Still no mention of them realising the remaining hostages

I think it's somewhat naive and childish to say this is "revenge" in the simplistic sense of the word.

Obviously some Israeli's will see it that way, but this is about pulverizing and destroying Hamas, a Jihadi terror organisation, and neutralizing its capability to carry out anything remotely on that scale ever again.

And Hamas is a stain on Gaza, Islamic State in a different robe. They've made life significantly worse for Palestinians in Gaza and achieved nothing, they bask in Israel killing their own civilian population and actively encourage it.

That doesn't make civilian casualties OK or acceptable. It doesn't make Israel's actions justifiable or excusable. But it is what it is, it's the real world. It's not revenge for the sake of revenge and it's not deliberating targeting civilians for the sake of targeting civilians.

It's all perfectly horrific but as someone put it elsewhere, Israel's actions are completely heartless but not at all headless.

It's impossible to conduct war in an urban environment without casualties. Not one person on this thread has put forward even the vaguest solution to what Israel should actually do. "I would start by not killing kids" is not a real-world answer.

Once again, because some people need to be told this explicitly in every post, simply stating basic facts are not an endorsement of Israel no more than being pro-Palestinian is an endorsement of Hamas.

You are obviously saying an eye witness lied about rape. Because they gave eye witness testimony which you have read describing rapes. Yet you refuse to accept that rapes occurred.

You said they were there as an IDF soldier. You have provided exactly zero evidence to support that. This is an obvious pretence you have latched onto without foundation to avoid accepting their evidence. Anything other than accept you were wrong in your attempts to exonerate Hamas of these accusations.

If you do not accept their testimony, then of course you are accusing the witness of lying.

Raz Cohen, Survivor of Music Festival Attack: We go to hide in a bush, a big bush in the creek. And we was in the bush something like six or seven hours. A lot of terrorists go around us and search for people to kill. The terrorists, people from Gaza, raped girls. And after they raped them, they killed them, murdered them with knives, or the opposite, killed — and after they raped, they — they did that.

So yes, you have multiple times now accused an eye witness of rape of lying. It is utterly disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/survivors-of-hamas-assault-on-music-fest-describe-horrors-and-how-they-made-it-out-alive

Images have been shared of mutilated babies online. You well know - again, they cannot be shared here. You could go away and google it, but of course you won't and you don't so you can keep up these denials. Know then that your denials are based purely on your refusal to engage with the evidence.

You have not condemned the atrocities against babies, as a fact, as something that actually occurred by Hamas. That they were executed by Hamas - even that much you have not done. Find me the post where you did so. Vague references to condemning atrocities without specifying what that relates to is not condemning Hamas for these actions. In doing so, you exonerate Hamas of guilt for raping civilians and executing babies and smear the victims and those who witnessed the atrocities.

What will your next excuse be to avoid doing so? Because let there be no doubt, at this point in the face of the evidence that has emerged, an excuse it will be.

I'll repost another poster's comments as it sums up your posts here very accurately:

The sheer number of people on twitter, plus other media, hopping up and down in the last few days screaming for confirmation that babies were being beheaded, while sidelining the rather important fact that Hamas had already plumbed incredible depths of barbarity by killing babies anyway. Did the method of their killing really matter after that?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230357/#Comment_121230357

That's fine. You can refuse to admit you were hypocritical and just run away if you want and leave it at that.

They're probably already dead. Hamas could easily have killed the hostages and place the dead bodies at the site of Israeli air strikes

"We will take mighty vengeance for this wicked day," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said.

It literally is revenge. Nothing childish or naive about it.

I agree that it is impossible to avoid all civilian casualties. However those casualties can be minimised. Searching an apartment block for terrorists rather than levelling it being one example.

Searching apartments blocks in hostile territory means a lot of boots and equipment having to be moved to a target which then is surrounded and attacked from all side and from rooftops soldiers die, Terrorists die and unfortunately civilians get caught in the cross fire, sometimes leveling a building is the safest option, I would rather see raids but it's Israel's call

Is there anyone on this thread that believes that Israel forcing 1.1 million civilians to leave their homes is warranted and acceptable? I would love to hear if your arguments.

The Israeli military,and any other military in the same situation

Syria is backed by Russia wholeheartedly. It wouldn't exist as it is today if not.

Plenty criticize the US and Israel and that backing is always being questioned - and justified. Feel free to call out the government of Israel on its policies, you live in a free country where you can do that. As do Americans.

Don't try criticizing the government in Russia, Syria, China or Gaza, though.