Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

That's what Nethanyu and his backers claim their ultimate objective is in Gaza to create a "new reality" where by Hamas no longer rule Gaza. They don't really care if moderates were to take over, nothing will fundamentally change for residents in Gaza living under occupation. Bibi cares about his political survival, so he has to be seen to crush Hamas completely. It's debatable, even if this stated aim could be achieved, whether it will be enough for him to survive in the long run.

It's not a binary option between releasing white doves over the Holy Land and the wholesale slaughter and injury of civilians effectively trapped in a tiny parcel of land. The critical point here is that Israel holds all the cards and has the ability to pursue its goals with greater restraint and patience — not obliterating Gaza and its people.

Gaza poses no existential threat to Israel and has no capability to invade Israel. The capability of Hamas to perform operations like last weekend, with the Israeli military fully mobilised, is overwhelmingly limited. Israel has tanks, jets, drones, the Iron Dome, a well-trained and well-equipped army — and the protection and support of the strongest global military alliance on the planet. Israel's neighbouring countries have demonstrated effectively zero desire to attack, aside from militant groups who are highly dangerous but limited.

Israel is not fighting a war for its survival in Gaza right now. It is pursuing an operation to swiftly destroy Hamas — at the expense of renewing in blood another generation of hatred and destabilising the region and indeed the world generally. If you call this a "solution", fair enough, but when the dust settles there are still going to be 2 million Gazans at the end of this little equation who aren't just going to happily forget this and dissolve themselves into thin air.

Nope, not merely "as reported" by i24 News. Let's not get into those semantic games again.

They are descriptions of atrocities carried out by Hamas. You agree they are despicable and revolting.

The reports are credible. There is no reason to dispute them. There is no reason to give Hamas the benefit of the doubt.

So you condemn them as an atrocity in fact and in act by Hamas i.e. that Hamas executed and mutilated babies?

If so, I withdraw the remarks in my previous post accusing you of condoning Hamas atrocities.

Junior b football often gets a mention as well.

There's not a huge amount of nuance between guerilla warfare and large scale military ops between David and Goliath. scenarios. In fact its always the exact same. The North is just my own countries version but its worldwide similar tale.

Some will claim context counts but as the saying goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. So lets remove context as its subjective and bias and stick to the black abd white.

Again Bibi sees Hamas as an asset, a bunch of extreme fundamentalists which prevent anything approaching a Palestinian state, it also gives him the excuse to execute at will in the West Bank and continue the land grab.

The idea like you suggests he and his party want moderate governance and relations with Gaza is illogical and not in their interest.

I'd be concerned about a shift in the commentary.

It has moved from Israel's 9/11 to Israel's Pearl Harbour and now they have demanded an entire City be evacuated.

What Idea? I said that was the official line to justify the invasion. He cares about his political survival. In the original post you quoted I stated: Hamas and Israel don't want peace with each other. They both give each other reason to exist. So we are in effect in agreement.

Or fight battles with Hamas in and amongst thr civilian population.

What do you propose Israel do?

They have to eliminate Hamas, don't they?

As a European citizen, I feel it's very very dangerous to be throwing the weight of support behind Israel. There are no good sides in this battle. Just lots of innocent civilians.

Von Der Leyen ordering the Israeli flag to be put on EU buildings will undoubtedly cost lives. A terrible misjudgment. Israel embassies pressuring countries to support them should not be pandered to either. The Israeli Govt are vile. Always have been.

I think Leo is performing above expectations on the message.