Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Russia condemns the killing of both Palestinian and Israeli people and has tabled a vote at the UNSC for an immediate ceasefire and safe passage of aid to Gaza. If it is vetoed it will then be put to all nations of the UN to individually vote on in the general assembly.

England is their homeland, not Ireland, and Ireland was never once considered a "homeland" for the UK. England or the UK is not under threat. So no, nobody would think it vaguely credible that England would suddenly decide it wants Ireland again.

What are you suggesting, Israel just stops existing? Hardly a logical argument.

The argument is stupid, Israel exists, and it's not going anywhere. Waffling on about how it should never have been created is pointless.

And that's besides the fact that Jews always lived there and have historic ties to the land going back millenium, they didn't throw a dart at the world map in 1947.

So yes, it's entirely correct to say that it doesn't matter at this stage the rights or wrongs of how Israel was created because it's not going anywhere.

Lumping that factual statement in with "so you think it's OK to kill civilians" and " so you support them doing whatever they want" is nonsense.

Warning, horrific images and videos from Gaza.

Look back along through that for the last few days, can you honestly say Israel are doing their best to target Hamas.

It's very clear they don't care who they hit with their bombs and they have said as much in many interviews over the last few days. They have said Hamas are to blame for the civilian casualties of Israeli bombs. That's not good enough, and they are committing war crimes. Two sides committing war crimes doesn't make it ok.

What is happening around the Israeli Embassy in Ballsbridge? I was just out for lunch and roads closed off everywhere inc Shelbourne Rd, guards all over the place and helipcopter overhead. Is there protests expected today?

By closed off everywhere - also city centre roads including Pearse Street and Mount Street.

NVM - its a march. Fair play.

It's actually very unlikely but hey, don't let that stop you.

My example was what if people in England who have ancestors that once lived in Ireland for hundreds of years suddenly decided they want to return here. It was only an example and yes it would be ridiculous for them to think that would be a reasonable thing to do. Just as it was ridiculous for Zionists to think they could just "return" to their "homeland" and start deciding which bits they wanted for themselves and whoever was there could just leave.

The population of Jews in the region before the beggining of Zionism was about 2%. What is it now?

And yes, Israel exists with 75 years and shur how can you just move them all out now. Do you think this means they have the right to committ war crimes to defend themselves. If they want to continue to exist in that region they will have to continue to try and defend themselves against terrorists and whatever else without continuing to commit war crimes. They chose to create their so called "homeland" so they can put up with the mess they have created as far as I am concerned and they shouldn't have support from the rest of the world to defend it. In my view their current situation is of their own making. They are being bankrolled by the US to continue this misery.

The western world decided to be on the side of the Israelis because it suited them better for many economic and political reasons. That doesn't mean the Israelis are the side of good and the Palestinians are on the side of evil and deserve what they get.

This nonsensical comparison has to be put to bed.

Firstly, the IRA was in no way, shape or form connected to, or supported by the Irish Government.

Secondly, for your comparison, imagine a scenario where 1,500 members of the Irish Defence Forces infiltrated the north at the behest of the Taoiseach of the day and massacred 1,400 civilians in Belfast as an act of demanding the North be returned.

What do you think the UK would do then? Invite the Taoiseach to a polite sit down?

People seem to fail to grasp the basic fact that Hamas is the literal Government and ruling authority of Gaza, as elected back in 2006 based on a charter of wiping Israel off the map.

So trying to draw direct paraellels to the IRA launching attacks on UK forces is ridiculous.

Firstly, I never said anything about the Irish government. My point was, when the IRA attacked the British army or protestants in the North, would it have been ok for the British army to have started bombing indiscriminantly the estates they went back into afterwards. Of course it wouldn't, they'd have killed huge amounts of innocent people (who may even have supported the IRA, but innocent nonetheless) and that would be a war crime.

They'd do a bit more than have a sit down with Michael alright, but they wouldn't start bombing houses and apartments blocks full of kids indiscriminately. That would be a war crime. If a nation is attacked can they begin committing war crimes as they see fit?

Look through that and explain why they are justified to committ those war crimes and why the rest of the world should continue to help them to do that?

Very strongly agree and a perfectly sensible post.

I shouldn't have said indiscriminantly, that goes too far, your right. They are not just dropping bombs on a house hoping to get lucky, and you'd hope they are targeting houses and apartments that Hamas are firing from or located in. But they aren't doing enough to ensure civilian casualties are lower and they have said they won't be doing much to ensure that.

If you look through that telegram thread there's hundreds of examples of ambulance drivers and innocent people being blown up and it's very hard to defend that. How do you defend blowing up truckloads of people trying to leave as instructed. For all the sophisticated weaponry and surveillance equipment in the hands of the IDF, the amount of women and children dead in a few days is far too high and it's not going to stop, it will be worse. There's 2200 people killed in Gaza in last few days, 720 of which are children and this is still rising as hospitals are in a bad way. 9000 people injured.

Neither Israel nor Hamas deserve anyone's support, they are both in the gutter together.

Corbyn speaking at rally in London, and in all fairness it's fact what he is speaking. How can the West condemn Russians war crimes, while cheering on Israels war crimes.

Israeli government seem like the laziest on the planet, no effort whatsoever goes into hunting down and making those terrorists pay, they just bomb the Palestine's instead. It goes someway in explaining how terrorists walked into Israel without any resistance , and killed 100's.

They did not just walk in, 1000 well organized Hamas soldiers invaded through tunnels, on ground and by with motorized hangliders, with help and training from the Iranians.....and they shot and killed hundreds of Israels who got in their way, some armed but mostly unarmed innocent civilians. They had the element of surprise.

Tbh a think a lot of the moderates in Western populations (myself included) are aghast at the sheer hypocisy being shown by our leaders.

I'm astounded at Von Der Leyens conduct over the past week. Her actions read like a woman who has been captured by Israeli lobbyists or Mossad have dirt on her. Something isn't right there.