Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

So you're including conflicts non related to Gaza or Palestine?

And yes non related is a bad choice of words.

Maybe how many Israeli's have Hamas or Palestinians killed vs how many Israel have killed in return

It will get worse - statistics, hostages, murders, shielding, history, tallies, crimes war- who gives a fck - both sides are c*mts for different reasons - I hate to see people “championing” one side or another - they’ve fcking fought for decades - fcking play tiddlywinks to sort it - it won’t be any worse than what’s happening right now.

But anyone inciting violence be it through inflammatory pictures or actions or words - go fck yourself you’re not helping things right now

Yeah, let's continue with an eye for an eye until everyone's dead. That's the only logical pathway here.

I'll try a simpler approach.

In the early 2000 -2010 3000 Israeli civilians were killed in terrorist attacks in Israel oddly enough 2020 was one most quitest periods in Israels history with no terrorist related deaths,but year in and year one month by month Israeli civilians are dieing in terrorist attacks..

Correction In 2020 two Israeli civilians were killed in terrorist attacks

Ok, same timeframe, how many Palestinians died from the IDF?

Does that look disproportionate to you?

And what about Russia vs Ukraine one was invaded and as you very well know from the near 3 year old thread it's absolutely Russia needs to be punished and they getting smashed and rightfully so ,we see calls to bomb Russian Cities,ban all Russians.from Europe,ban all Russian products, stop selling all goods from foods to medicines.

Adds up to the same thing unfortunately collective punishment for what was putins three day adventure to Ukraine,

There's a horrendous amount of complete misinformation on this thread. Some genuine misinformed opinion, some deliberate mistruths. I've lost count of some of them but they include.

And I will keep this factual in the main rather than opinionated.

1) Israel's neighbours all want it destroyed and/or would go to war if not for US backing or nuclear weapons. No, they absolutely don't want to go to war. Who would? Eygpt? Zero interest and shares intel/Gaza border with Israel and is actively involved in the blockade, normalised relations for decades.

Lebanon/Jordan? Zero interest, normalised relations, and even if that weren't true, insignificant armed forces that wouldn't dent Israel. Syria? Second-rate army ravaged by ongoing war that even pre-Civil War wouldn't have had the faintest chance against Israel even in tandem with the above countries.

I won't even address the crazy claims that Turkey and Iran would cross international borders to invade Israel, putting aside the fact that neither country has the faintest interest in such an outlandish endeavor.

2) Israel survived the 1948 invasion solely because of US backing. The US didn't even supply Israel at that point. It had to scramble to source stuff from Europe and even at that had to basically get a lot of it covertly. The US did not start really strongly backing Israel for another two decades after that.

3) Israel only exists now because of US backing and/or nuclear weapons. See point number 1. Firstly; who wants to invade Israel? No-one. Secondly; the US gives Israel a few billion a year in aid. The Israel economy is worth $500 billion. Thirdly; Israel presumably having nuclear weapons didn't stop the Arab invasion of 1973 which was defeated.

4) Gaza is an open air prison with no oversight and no control. Hamas controls Gaza. Hamas is the Government, it displaced Fatah in 2006. It's a Jihadi fundementalist organisation along the lines of ISIS. It hates Israel and until recently it's charter, the one it was elected on, was wiping out Israel and all jews. It hates Israel; it hates western values; it hates LGBT; it places little value on women. Hamas has not held elections since but polls show generally strong support for Hamas among the Gaza population, but it's very difficult to say how accurate said polls are. PA has also not held elections in the West Bank due to the fact that all indications are that Hamas would be elected to rule.

5) Israel is blockading Gaza in a deliberate attempt to commit genocide. Israel and Eygpt both blockaded Gaza in response to Hamas taking power in 2006. Neither country wanted a fundementalist Jihadi organisation having open access to resources including weapons. Prior to that Israel had just withdrawn from Gaza completely and handed over control to Fatah. Had Hamas not taken power there would be no blockade, just as there is no blockade on the West Bank which is part-controlled by the Palestinian Authority. That's not to say all in rosy in the West Bank, but it's certainly incomparably functional compared to Gaza.

Well said. And trying to be proactive here, what can we do as an international community? We've offered an independent state with a lot of land for Palestininans in the past several times, but they always refused.

These strikes aren't to kill individual low-level Hamas fighters. They are to destroy Hamas infrastructure, fortifications, launch sites, command centres, intelligence centres, tunnel networks, etc.

Given Gaza is a dense urban area, all of these things are in areas populated with large civilian numbers.

@Wolf359f Sanctions are not the same as collective punishment.

Yes that's exactly what sanctions are collective punishments , imposed by several or more countries on another,

When America went into Iraq both sides times they bombed civilian infrastructure power, water, communication all removed,

The Same applies to taken down a building with terrorists sometimes the easiest and safest option is to hit the building with an airstrike ,it's safer than Risking untold number of soldiers and civilians.

We have been told on here about massive indiscriminate carpet bombing for a full week, 6000 x2000lb bombs have apparently dropped on Gaza one of the most densely populated areas in the world why was there so few casualties reported, that's a hell of a lot of explosives dropped in one the most densely populated areas in the world, indiscriminate carpet bombings is whats been described on here,why so few casualties for the amount of explosives dropped from the air ,not including missles from Apaches and jets and Naval bombardment,

Unfortunately Hamas have given Israel the excuse its been waiting for, for the biggest land grab in years.

Israel has spent decades fostering extremism within the Palestinian population by brutalizing them in everyway possible. Unfortunately for the Palestinians, Israel are happily bombing the population of Gaza into oblivion and when the Dust settles Gaza will be forever changed.

I find it a little sickening that the goverments of numerous countries condemn Hamas but in no way criticise Israel for the wholesale slaughter of innocents. Its very telling that in numerous countries the support for Palestinians is huge among the general population (all faiths) but there is nothing but condemnation for Israel unless ofc your Jewish. Any criticism of Israel is immediately labelled as antisemitism by Israeli.

For Netanyahu this couldn't have come at a better time, I've no doubt he was delighted things have played out the way it has.

Do you believe some person in Moscow not being able to play his Xbox or buy an iphone, but can still get his diabetic medicine the same as the blockade in Gaza? I mean he can buy his iphone/xbox/medicine abroad and use it in Russia. Palestinians's cannot. Sanctions prevent countries sending stuff to a country. Israel is preventing Palestine getting them. Massive difference. Blockade ≠ Sanctions. Management have the right to refuse service!

Do you think Ukraine is right in bombing any Russian town or city and killing civilians as they were invaded?

I'm not sure how taking down an apartment saves civilians.... unless you feel the civilian lives in the apartment are worth less?

Stop with your quick google, you made a fool out of yourself on the Russian thread. Yes 6000 ordinances have been dropped, but not 6000 x 2000lb bombs.

Use logic, they say they drop small bombs as warning knock, that's hardly a 2000lb bomb ffs.

And unfortunately we only know the confirmed deaths, we don't know the number dead under the rubble.