Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I never said it was Genocide. The onus is on Israel to prevent innocent deaths and 700+ dead kids to me looks like they doing a piss poor job. All those points don't explain why Israel would turn off water, power, food and medicine to 2 million people. Maybe you can explain that?

Meanwhile in Qatar Iran's foreign minister meeting with the head of hamas who live in Qatar,not gaza or the West bank but safe and sound in qutar, both seem very happy to see each other

Quote?

I don't have to explain it because I don't agree with it.

Also being factual, given the unprecedented amount of ordanance being dropped on Gaza, it's frankly a miracle more people have not been killed. And you are completely correct, today's death toll is absolutely not indictative of what the final death toll would be even if hostilities ended at this exact moment.

Human life is not cheap, and should never be considered cheap regardless of context.

But given the sustained, high intensity of bombing in such a dense urban population it's a miracle the figure is in the low thousands, awful as that is.

As I have said before, look at the Second World War, where in some cases up to 100 thousand were killed in a single bombing raid in a matter of hours as a result of genuine, indiscriminate bombing specifically targetting civilians.

War in all forms is utterly abhorrent. And I don't think - and I'm not saying you said this - that Israel takes any "joy" in this or has been "waiting for this day" as some people suggest. They are as sick and tired of death and war as anyone as a nation that has gone through existential wars multiple times.

Though a very good point was raised earlier about Israel's disasterous communications around this war, because regardless of their ultimate intention, which is clearly to eradicate Hamas, there's been vague statements, no clear aims, and completely unacceptable statements that more or less come across as a burning desire to inflict retribution in a general rather than targetted sense (ie, "We want to crush, destroy Hamas and seperate that vile ideaology from the Palestinian people of Gaza")

I would hope that this horrific mess will ultimately lead to a serious talk about a serious solution of a peaceful solution and future, but unfortunately it's not remotely possible with Hamas in the picture, no more than it would be realistic for the USA to sit at a table with ISIS.

Ukraine has not attacked and killed thousands of civilians. That was my point. Could you hold them up morally if they killed 2k civilians in Belgorod for example? Despite Russian declaring war on them, killing thousands of Ukrainians, kidnapping children, committing mass war crimes on them etc... Some would argue they would be justified.

But 2k civilians in Gaza, killed by Israel is different? You can still stand by Israel?

So the western word is committing war crimes against North Korea and Iran with their sanctions? That's collective punishment?

The EU is committing war crimes against Russia, that's how you wanna spin this?

Some parallels between your neck of the woods and the current conflict.

During the 1641 rebellion the “Laggan Army” used atrocity propaganda with great effect to justify the massacre the Irish.

Interesting how my recent YouTube watches forward to Ben Shaprio videos.

I have no interest in Ben Shaprio's opinion. He is a zionist Jew.

I don’t agree.

Past Israeli cabinet members have called for genocide and present ones have called for Palestinian people to be wiped off the face of the earth and villages eradicated. Members of the current Israeli government share views about the Palestinians that are not dissimilar to views in 1930s Germany about minorities.

These people are in coalition government in Israel!

https://www.vox.com/world/2023/1/20/23561464/israel-new-right-wing-government-extreme-protests-netanyahu-biden-ben-gvir

He's a piece of crap but he said something remarkably valid at some point.

Facts don't care about feelings.

It's a simple message but it's a powerful one.

Facts aren't opinion. They just are. I know some people abuse the concept of facts horrifically in any given debate but I personally loathe when people conflate the stating of facts with opinion or support of said fact.

@Homelander

You are living in a fariytale.

I think the Iraq War was 97% off the back of US military intelligence. These US intelligence agencies were infiltrated by Zionists.

The Iraq invision coincidently benefited Israel.

Believe it or not, Hamas’ explicit stated aim is not to destroy the Jews, whom Palestinians lived alongside for centuries, but with the Jewish state.

From their own charter stating their aims and beliefs:

“Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine.”

Obviously like all politicians/terrorists you can take what they say with a large dose of salt but unlike the Nazis, nowhere in their charter do they call for the “destruction of the Jews”.

Recent events however make that ring very hollow.

Fair point.

However that's an update to the previous charter which did call for the complete eradication of Israel as a state. And that is just not realistic and sets the framework for eternal conflict.

The current charter accepts the 1967 borders which is a radical departure from the older charter. And in itself I would imagine most people would find somewhat credible and reasonble.

So, fair enough, they have moderated their image in the past 15 odd years or whatever it is since the "modernisation" of their more hardline charter.

But combine that previous charter - the destruction of Israel - with last weekends offensive, which aimed at maximum civilian casulties.

I don't think it's any reach to see why people still see the prior charter as their real aims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJG0X6V7irE&list=PLIcuwOSgLl7OzUE2D4gEjxkmmgt3ytoBc