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"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Some of our players looked very nervous before the match and there's no doubt that contributed to NZ going 13-0 up after 20 minutes. Only then did we get our act together and whilst it's true we dragged ourselves back into the game by HT we contributed to our own downfall by giving ourselves a mountain to climb at the start leading to a situation where we were never leading.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭riddles


    I think we can reflect on the wisdom of thinking we could win a world cup with a 38 year out half and POM who was seriously questioned 4-5 years ago. The core of this team also came up short in successive champions cup finals. I'm no expert on the game but I could see we were sleep walking into the same mistakes. It was a no brainer for me to stick a wedge on NZ at 3.5 to 1 to win it out given the probability of getting to a final.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,443 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    So what makes a difference to pressure?

    Mentality?

    Fine, they didn’t have the mentality and came up against a superior team in that department. It’s a failing going back 30+ years in Irish teams and until it’s addressed I don’t think anything will change. The IRFU and coaching staff have obviously tried to do that, but it comes down to the 15 or 23 players on the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    A team that bottled it wouldn't have gotten themselves back in the game at 13 nil down against the All Blacks in a World Cup quarter final and stayed in contention until the very end despite numerous sucker punches.

    Bar incredible defence on the last line out Ireland would have likely won. They didn't bottle it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,983 ✭✭✭Augme



    Okay, so what's an acceptsble term for a team who fails to perform at their best in their most important game?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,122 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Review the start of the game an some wayward passing and kicks from NZ, they were just as nervous. You should be nervous to an extent. We tokk a bit longer to quiet our nerves and had to chase. Chasing causes errors and we made some but so too did NZ.

    Boiled down to NZ getting more of the luck for me. Whitelock could have gotten pinged for not releasing at the end, but wasn't. Another day he does and we go to the corner and maul over the lineout.

    Didn't happen, and that as they say is sport at this level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭Shehal


    And under normal circumstances this sort of performance from Ireland would be enough to get to a SF, sadly due to the lob sided draw and a truly immense performance from NZL it wasn't. We'll probably see same at the same time tonight when one of France or SA crashes out.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I’m mentally broken after that. It feels like the last few years were all for nothing. Everything was building up, everything was done right, but last night was the biggest game in Irish Rugby and we ended up coming away with the same old regrets, mistakes and ultimately have nothing to show for it.

    Yea we won some six nations and got a series win but this team will be remembered like all the others, couldn’t get the job done when it really, really mattered.

    People will go on about the series win but I guarantee not one NZ person would swap any WC knockout game for a series. Ultimately that’s just down to a difference in mentally.

    Where we go from here I don’t know. We’re now entering the dreaded transition due to the age profile of a number of our key players.

    I don’t think this generation of players are going to have another opportunity like last night. They will all know they left it behind them again.

    It’s hard to get excited about winning a six nations after the excitement of the opportunity we have squandered here. It’s hard because it feels like just lowering expectations to try find some solace.

    Massively frustrating. We’re always left trying to find excuses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭Shehal




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    If we play out best rugby nobody can beat us.

    we didnt play our best rugby.

    NZ had to play their best rugby to beat us. They did and they did.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,122 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They came up short after giving it all they had on the day.

    No disgrace in that for me. In fact I am, given the circumstances they found themselves in incredibly proud of them. Epitomised by Keenan looking like he had been in a warzone still putting his body on the line to the very end.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    But they didn't do everything they could on the day. The simple fact is that they played worse yesterday than they did in recent games, and they most certainly didn't play to their full potential.

    They had the dream scenario for that game. Great form, minimal injuries, one of NZ's weakest ever teams, and even had 2 opposition yellow cards thrown in as the cherry on top.

    All that, and yet they played below their recent form and they made mistakes they don't usually make.

    Doing everything right and losing is one thing, but making mistakes and underperforming when the pressure is on is quite another. And whether you lot like it or not, there is a 6 letter word that applies in that scenario.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Helps when to get to the last 4 all they have to do is beat the 10th best team in the world... I get what you are trying to say with you're second point and for the most part I agree but using the draw in this RWC as in anyway supporting evidence for England makes you lose a lot of credibility, England are only going to be in a SF because of luck of the draw and nothing else, same with Argentina.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    I don't subscribe to that at all. Winning quarter finals is no big deal for NZ and we've never won a knock out match in the history of the RWC. The terrible start cost us big time.

    You can mention luck but Sexton missed that penalty at such a crucial stage in the match.....we'd have taken the lead after the penalty try if he'd converted that and it wasn't the hardest kick in the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,510 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I agree with those saying they looked very tired in the last twenty minutes. They still kept giving everything they had.

    I'm thinking back now to what I said before the World Cup started about the different schedules teams had. We had a brutal game against South Africa then a week off and then Scotland. While we beat Scotland well it was still another tough physical game.

    New Zealand played France at the start and didn't have a hard game from them until last night. The same applies to France and even moreso for England who I'm certain gave their whole squad a weeks rest as they had qualified very early on.

    I think having two tough games like we had late in the pool stages played a big part in them tiring early last night.



  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭MattressRick


    There was a lack of bottle early on though. The occasion and pressure got to them. Ireland were a mess with bad handling, lineouts etc until they were 13-0 down.

    Unfortunately that was the losing of the game, it meant we were under pressure all the time, rushing things. Prime example near the end was Doris rushing towards that dropout and knocking on. Ireland did super to get their composure back for the majority of the match, but they were definitely jittery and nervous early on.

    New Zealand after all the detractors, even in their own country, just had that superiority complex from minute 1.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Rugbymad2020


    Not true,if SA Nz and fran and england all played their best against Irelands best I’d say they all beat Ireland.

    also Nz didn’t play their best last night,and lost two players to yellow cards.maybe it’s time to face up to the music and agree Ireland aren’t anywhere near as good as their fans seem to think.its proven every single time on the world stage.thats not a coincidence



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,122 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    SA score in the corner in the pools and we would have been assessing form and performance differently in that game.

    We have always made mistakes, all teams do. Nobody would score if the opposition didn't make mistakes.

    We were in game with a team which was on a par with us and marginally better on the night.

    Happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    NZ lost players because we put so much pressure on them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,122 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They missed a penalty after that too.

    Penalties are missed. You pick up and keep trying and we did, at full tilt imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭mrm


    Reducing that 80minute titanic battle with that much at stake involving that many players to an 'acceptsble term' is simply nonsense and displays a lack of understanding of sport by those who wish the argument to align so - most likely to accommodate their own inability to be able to analyse sport events. I wish the 'bottlers'/ 'chokers' name calling brigade would set up their own thread and go off worship Eamon Dunphy/Pat Spillane/ Colm O Rourke/ etc. - individuals who cover up their inability to analyse their sports with name calling on players and teams. 13 nil down and pulling the game back to a 1 point deficit within the same half is not the sign of bottlers or whatever that terms means.

    Magnificent spectacle of sporting brilliance last night in a match (now that's a key term) involving two teams, where one has to lose. Unfortunately it was our team.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    People complaining about the draw need to realise that last night was for a place in the final as I don't think Argentina would beat us in a SF.

    The draw was irrelevant. It's loser talk and loser mentality to refer to ourselves as the number 1 ranked team in the world and then complain about the draw. Other teams should be fearing us rather than us whinging about the draw.

    In the end we have a sort of national psyche in this country which weaves its way through society and that psyche is that we aren't really good enough combined with a massive fear of failure. The start last night was a disaster (some players looked very nervous) and you cannot play for 60 minutes v NZ and expect to win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,443 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    But we’ve had easier draws in other world cups and not made the most of them either. Yes it’s a pity that with probably our best team we got the (very) hard side but you have to beat the best to win the thing anyway. It reminded me of 2011 and the elation at beating Australia in the group, only to come out and completely freeze against wales.



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Leslie Purkiss


    Please stop disrespecting Sexton by mentioning POM in the same sentence.

    Sexton is in the top 5 Irish players of all time.

    POM isn’t in the top 30 Irish back rowers of all time. He has 50 caps too many.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭Shehal


    You've more or less proven why people are complaining about the draw, how is it that we are in a position where a QF is far more competitive than a likely SF in not one but 2 cases in this RWC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    We will just leave it at that. I thought they did , you thought they didn't



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭riddles


    People don't seem to be able to distinguish between the extraordinary effort the team and management put into last night indeed the last four years and asking the simple questions of what happened and what shouldn't happen again etc



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Kori Brave Sextant


    Bottling exists.

    Liverpool losing the league in the 13/14 was prime bottling. Five points clear at the top of the league with three games left.

    Lost to Chelsea at home (Gerrard slip game)

    Drew with Crystal Palace away (Were leading 3-0)

    Beat Newcastle


    I don't consider Ireland losing to New Zealand to be a bottle job. New Zealand may not be as good as they were a while back but they're still a top class side with incredible mentality. As I said in another thread, they fear absolutely nobody. Ireland enjoy being underdogs, New Zealand consider it an affront to be underdogs.

    Yes, we lost in another quarter final but that was more to do with the b*llocks of having the draw made in 2020 and the top 5 ranked teams being in the same side of the draw. France and Ireland won all their games in the pool and were awarded with South Africa and New Zealand in the quarters.

    We beat South Africa in the pool and would wallop any side in the other side of the draw.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Leslie Purkiss


    Ireland were gifted two of the softest tries you’ll ever see NZ concede. Last night was a massive opportunity, and our boys let it pass them by. They were handicapped by only having 6 in the pack, but overall, a bottle job.



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