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Should the sale of second-hand electrical items be banned?

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24

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  • No, absolutely not.

    theres already plenty enough ewaste being generated from manufacturers such as Apple & Samsung making it impossible to repair their phones and other products easily before we start banning second hand sales.

    You’re basically asking should we have laws that decide what people can do with their own property here.. so even if you buy a brand new washing machine or phone it wouldn’t even be yours.

    the very idea that prices would drop as a result is absurd as well. I bought a Samsung washing machine a few weeks ago, cost just about €600. By your logic if second hand models were not for sale it would be cheaper, however, that’s not true at all if anything it would be the opposite, since there’s no other option they could charge what they like!

    Then there’s the fact of the matter some people just can’t afford full whack. But does that mean they shouldn’t have it?

    Fire risks are not any higher with electrical goods because they were bought used either imo that’s just paranoia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭nachouser


    What about second-hand appliances used in second-hand houses? Madness, I assume.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Wouldnt e-waste eventually go down because people would be buying new machines and they could be more reliable than old worn out used machines? - plus of course you are buying brand new machines where normally the manufacturers offer at least 12months warranty on parts (sometimes parts & labor) and you are more likely to get it repaired under warranty (if the repairers do not play the uneconomical to repair card and manufacturers continue to keep parts readily available in stock) and not chuck it out like they would be more likely to do with a used/worn out one so cutting down e-waste that way.

    I am not sure what you mean about buying a new machine and it 'not being yours' it will be if you buy the machine outright.

    The idea of prices dropping is that demand for new appliances would increase massively if used items were 'banned' and (greed aside) more (mass) production of something should bring down prices in manufacturing and (hopefully) the manufacturers would (should) pass these savings onto customers .

    Thats not too bad a thing - about if they cannot afford full whack to buy something they would miss out - this is what people used to do years ago before credit , if they could not afford it they simply did not buy it (live between their means) now these days there is high interest credit payments and loan sharks available for the poorer people who cannot afford to buy items outright and then that has created even more problems in itself for many people.

    risk is risk, even if nothing happens - you are 9 times out of 10 'buying blind' - most people cannot gain who much an item has been used and how much its components have worn out inside and become considerably dangerous/a risk - why not take out the whole risk and buy a brand new with all new components, never used item which (bar manufacturers recall) should be absolutely safe .... and if not you do have a bonifide retailer and manufacturer to go back to should you spot (or smell) or something not sounding right/acting right. - its not paranoia - its just logical that by rights (unless you really have got lucky and bought a hardly used appliance with a couple of uses) a brand new appliance is going to be safer that an older used/worn appliance (bar product safety recalls from the manufacturer which happens very rarely)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    it depends whether you can afford to take chances and take a chance on how good (safe the appliances all are) if you had the money and want peace of mind you could get a electrician in to test each appliance for PAT and also check your wiring in your house while there and that all your MCB and RCD in the consumer unit are all working and tripping as they should, and an earth check of the house you just moved into



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,798 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The answer to your first paragraph is an outright no. People would be buying cheaper crap that breaks down even faster, and manufacturers would have a direct incentive to make sure stuff is both unreliable and unrepairable



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I just remembered this Oldest Technology in your Home thread. I think we should try to make contact with these people to save them from burning down their houses. Andy, please avert your eyes.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058314293/the-oldest-technology-in-your-home/p1



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,213 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Id go the opposite way and ban new stuff for about 3-5 years. Get people used to repairing again. I am after joining a repair shop down the local library where i fix electronics. Hope it gets more popular



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,213 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Think Andy is just after ordering a few containers of cheap appliances from Shenzhen and doesn't like competition



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    if not banned (used electrical items) - then only make it that used electrical items can only be bought from certain places.

    that means, general members of the public banned from selling used electrical items/appliances and that the only way you can purchase a used item such as that from designated shops/outlets/warehouses who have thoroughly tested the items before they are put out on display or sold for safety (against fire and electrocution risks and dangerously worn out components) and a warranty of 3months or something - this would make buying more safer (and the item safer) and a port of call for if people did buy such from an establishment and have a problem with the item .



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    Sounds like you’ve got a vague solution - that you’re still retooling on the fly - for a problem that just does not exist in any meaningful way.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    oh i wouldn't say fires and electrocutions do not exist from faulty used and worn out / EOL second-hand appliances - quite the opposite



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    There is too much throwaway these days. I once pulled a few Sky Satellite boxes out of a skip to find that a capacitor in the power supply had obviously failed and just needed to be replaced - cost = just a few cents. This is a common fault in a lot of domestic equipment that spends considerable time in 'standby' mode. There are a considerable amount of domestic entertainment items that can not be simply physically turned off. (power isolated). I was in a re-cycle center soon after and saw two more satellite boxes in the bin, but was prevented from removing them on 'safety' grounds.

    I also went to re-cycle an old washing machine in a council re-cycle facility, but had pulled various parts out, that I could use - drum, switches, motor, cables etc. All that was left was basically some plastic housing and the metal case. On taking it out of the car, a jobsworth council employee came across and said they could not accept it, because I had stripped it. It was then that I realised the council depot was more of a re-sell operation for commercial purposes than a true re-cycle operation for the consumer. As far as I was concerned, I was doing my own re-cycling in reusing the parts, all I expected them to do was to process the left overs - they however wanted the entire unit to sell on.

    The amount of equipment that gets dumped and replaced for silly reasons is a disgrace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    people should not let increases of e-waste cloud the safety of appliances in the home either. It is more important to have safe (or safe as possible) electrical and electronic appliances than trying to put spanners in the works such as getting rid of perfectly working appliances will make e-waste situations worse.

    take recycling a washing machine for example. If recycled properly most of the washing machine should be able to be nearly all recycable. salvage the good safe working components and sell as spares , The wires stripped out and copper from the wire is valuable, the metals used on the circuit boards the plastic melted down and used in other manufacturing (in fact I think I read somewhere one manufacturer was making outer drums out of their brand new washing machines from old recycled melted down drums from old machines) - then whatever metal is left from old washing machines can be used/sold as scrap metal



  • Registered Users Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Whilst I agree in principle with your point it’s often cheaper to replace than repair, or it’s so similar in price that you’d be daft to repair when you can get a brand new item for not much more than the cost of repair. It’s also not exactly easy to find repairmen, and even when you do they’ll want a call out charge to tell you “I’d just buy a new one if I was you”. All of these I know from experience.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    And I would counter your claim by simply pointing out that after pages of posts you have yet to present any figures supporting your opinion.

    I’ll also point out I specifically said that your work in progress solution(s) seek to fix a problem that does not exist in any meaningful way.

    I would, genuinely, like to see where your evidence of significant “fires and electrocutions” “from faulty used and worn out / EOL second hand appliances” is coming from. I suspect whatever source you provide will show “quite the opposite”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,943 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble




  • Registered Users Posts: 68,798 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Proof please.

    You have such a bee in your bonnet about this that you surely must have cold hard statistics to show that you're not just doing a weird shill for buying new.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,923 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I know what you mean, but there really needs to be a societal shift towards repair somehow. We're throwing out way too much stuff.

    When I was growing up in the 80s and 90s, you could bring your TV, VCR etc in to be repaired. It was far cheaper than buying new items.

    The move back towards making batteries replaceable in devices by the end user is a great move for example.

    Sure if you think about it, plenty of items thrown out still work, they don't even need to be repaired. folks just want to upgrade to the latest and greatest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Well it seems to have turned into that I have to start providing statistics now and hard facts otherwise people won't believe it happens which is rubbish. of course there are a lot of dangerous used secondhand appliances out there being sold (maybe some brand new ones as well) .

    of course I cannot offer any statistics because that would involve me doing lots of searches to find them (and of course not all fires and electrocution will have been recorded or reported anyway so will be a waste of time. its all just my personal beliefs at the moment. I don't feel strongly enough that I am going to use my time up to find instances and dates and figures. but if you want cold hard facts the same information is out there what will be presented to me if you want to take the time and do your own research.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,923 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    You do always die when you get electrocuted as electrocution means death by electric shock.

    If you got an electric shock and you're telling me about it you weren't electrocuted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Of course you could offer lots of statistics, if you bothered to do the research. But the people who compile those statistics, never recommend that people can't buy second hand. In fact, people are being encouraged in this age of recycling to pass on appliances to other people in need.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,923 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Have you had an electrical fire as a matter of interest? You seem overly paranoid about second hand goods.

    I actually collect and use second hand electrical items. Everything from videogame consoles (have had hundreds go through my hands over the years) to vintage hifi equipment, old computers, vintage arcade PCBs, machines and monitors, loads of old CRT TVs. Lots and lots of stuff with electricity running through it.

    I've taken these items apart. Climbed inside of arcade machines.

    How many times have I been shocked? Zero.

    How many fires have I had break out? Zero.

    Unless you're plugging in something from the 1950s that's spent 70 years in a damp shed it's probably fine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,798 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It's not "turned in to", it's peoples patience wearing out

    Beliefs and opinions can, despite what some people thing, be utterly wrong and nonsensical. You've now admitted this is a personal belief based on nothing. And it is wrong and nonsensical

    Considering you think a normal washing machine costs 500, I'm sure your local electrical retailer loves when you walk in the door



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Good point . Yes I mean electric shock ..... or electrocuted if it was fatal and you came back as a ghost to tell the story😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Your talking of low powered electronics, I'm talking of high powered in the kw power range with metal outer cabinets that heat up and can give electric shock if not earthed properly or repaired shoddily/incorrectly by unqualified people , think washing machines tumble dryers and dishwashers etc...



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,433 ✭✭✭✭kneemos



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,923 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    The second hand market for kitchen appliances is absolutely tiny compared to other electronics. I can't say I've ever bought a second hand washing machine or know of someone else who has.

    They tend to be bought new and used until broken.

    The main second hand electronic market is in smaller consumer devices (Which would be the likes of what some second hand shops and the car boots you mentioned sell)

    Can't say I've ever seen someone selling old washing machines and driers at car boots.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I think the economy in general depends to a fair extent on waste and people buying things they don't need. Even food, of which vast amounts are thrown away without being eaten. So there is bound to be a good deal of that happening in the washing machine market as well. I read that machines should last about 10 years. Houses changing only every 10 years would not support the array of machines I see in the shops. I think it was mentioned in the thread already about the amount of perfectly good stuff that gets left off at recycling centres. And apparently there are more mobile phones in the country than people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    of course if I were a washing machine engineer say and was called out to a washing machine and it was getting on a bit and needed a major part I would be wondering yeah but if you replace that at a high cost and then something else goes wrong on the machine and it has to be scrapped still then , then thats the money down the drain. (I would still get my callout & check/diagnose charge) I can see where they are coming from .

    i know we have to try and repair and repair and repair again - and keep electrical for as long as possible and cut down on e waste .... but in another way we also got to realise as well on the other hand that everything has a life and when something has come to the end of its natural working life... then it needs to be retired/gone



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,021 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    When we have solved the Great Washing Machine Crisis, we can then turn to the stuff that goes into the machines to get washed. The vast amounts of clothes which is being dumped by people buying more that they don't need.



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