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"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭dickdasr1234


    I didn't say they choked.

    They seemed utterly unprepared for the initial assault.

    Are you saying their play wasn't scatterbrained in the first twenty minutes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They no more choked than France choked.

    50/50 games at this level.

    We have rarely if ever seen an Irish team at this level in a sport. Just like NZ, SA Fra etc we can on our day beat any of these teams and it's been like that for some time.

    Important now that we stay there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭Seadin


    I dont like saying it or reminding people but can Ireland win and beat these teams when it matters most? From the weekends evidence I would be inclined to say no. Alot of our strengths were our weaknesses at the weekend. Line out, scrum, general play, decision making and confidence all below par of what we expected it to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'd say it is somewhat of a fluke because of the draw that we were in a 50/50 scenario so early in the tournament. I'd say France are saying the same thing this AM, while England and Argentina would not be.

    The 'bottlers' shouting on the sidelines say the SA game didn't matter, but they ignore what SA put into that game and what we did. Had we lost that we turned the Scotland game into a 50/50 one. It counted and we won a fierce game against a team that may win it now.

    Fine fine margins at this level and I think some are not used to this level of a sport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,724 ✭✭✭✭phog


    beat these teams

    Who are these teams you're referring to?

    We beat France to win a Grand Slam, we've beaten SA this year to top our Group in the RWC, we beat Australia a few RWCs back so that only leaves NZ.

    It's a shame about the draw and after last night you've two good trans heading home while two lesser teams get through to a SF by virtue of the draw that put them into an easier route to the SF



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    I doubt that will happen but they do deserve some kind of recognition in my opinion. They are an outstanding group. Very unlucky on Friday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And at least two great servants are retiring. We can spitefully ignore that or celebrate them. I know which option I would choose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    It's all still hard to stomach.

    England and Argentina in the SFs despite their performances over the past couple of years and the relative level of opposition they've had to face in the tournament until now.

    Knowing the potential this team had, and the opportunity that has been lost.

    Fortune was not in our favour in this game, though there were areas of performance where Ireland let themselves down as well. That said, the margins were miniscule, and we were one special Jordie Barrett try-saving tackle away from being on the other side of this. How different the narrative would've been.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭raclle


    I'd agree with that sentiment. NZ, SA and Fra all brought their game to another level and consistently so when it matters. I couldn't believe how slow we were to the breakdown and I think only one turn over all game?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭Seadin


    I know that but if we were in the other group are you saying we 100% be into a semi final?


    History doesn't lie and we have an abysmal record against Argentina in RWCs losing to them 3 times. I'm not saying we would lose this time but the 2007 or 2015 teams weren't meant to lose to them either and see what happened. There were other circumstances that came into play but we tend to use all these excuses as reasons to justify why we didn't get the job done. Argentina played good enough on Saturday to beat Wales and Wales have always a good standing in RWCs. I am not 100% convinced we would to be honest and until we actually go away and do it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭trevezel


    retirement announced for Atonio and Taofifénua, the french pack will lose 280 kgs, severe diet....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Had NZ lost, they'd(the negative ninny's in NZ) be talking about the nervy start that NZ had, the wayward kicks and untypical badly thrown passes. They'd be lamenting not going for the corner when penalties were awarded etc.

    The easy criticisms would be tirelessly made. Eaten bread is soon forgotten when you win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,546 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    It's disappointing that there are some still gloating over the loss. It's no shame to lose by 4 points against New Zealand. It happens.

    I don't have much more to say about the game other than our set piece requiring tightening up. We were beaten intensity wise at the breakdown, which is rare. But had our scrum and especially lineout functioned correctly it would have been a lot easier to play our way out of trouble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭mattser


    If my aunt had you know whats she'd be my uncle.

    Still bitching three days later.

    Ireland were beaten fair and square. Get over it and move on.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Mod: @Mr Disco and @lbunnae two week rugby for ban for trolling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Joke's on you man, I don't even have a girlfriend to perform badly in the sack with.

    And in addition what a load of nonsense.

    So we're not allowed to criticise the performances of highly paid international sports people any more?

    All this "couldn't be prouder" bullshit you saw on the internet are just eeijits trying to get a clap on the back from other people on the internet saying "oh Aren't the irish great fans".

    Mod: Warning.

    Post edited by aloooof on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭raclle


    Players were left isolated at the breakdown. We were too slow which is why I mentioned possible fatigue in another thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭trevezel


    in 2027, Ireland will play without Sexton, Aki, Lowe, Mahony, ...and the situation is even worse for South Africa, so i expect to see France and NZ potential winners for next RWC



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭letowski


    James Ryan was a much bigger loss than billed too. We missed his aggression and workrate in the ruck and tackle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,504 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes, it's almost a self fulfilling thing at this stage - we got eliminated at the quarter final stage again, therefore we must have "choked"....ignoring the fact that we might have been knocked out by the eventual 2023 winners and pushed them to within four points.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321



    Maybe I'm a purist or traditionalist, but there is a lot more to Rugby than the World Cup. This World Cup in particular showed what a vacuous, useless competition it is on some levels and how hopeless the administrators of world rugby are. A lot of people have lost interest in the competition because of all the one sided drubbings. And then two of the best four teams knocked out in the quarters, and two mediocre teams get to the semis, who would not be there if the seeding was done properly.

    A test series in New Zealand matters, a lot. Its one of the reasons why NZ were so up for the game on Saturday. They hate losing, but losing a test series at home is almost as big as losing a WC. They were hugely motivated. Plus they were written off by everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I agree. Doesn't particularly matter to me when it came, QF, SF or final. The fact is we were beaten on the day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Nz would have been massively motivated given they , were referred to as the underdogs...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭TheRona


    Richie Mo'unga was quite funny in one of the pressers before the match. He was asked about them being underdogs with the bookies, and he said it makes no difference to him, he's not betting on Paddy Power or any of those websites.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭TRC10


    It's disappointing that there are some still gloating over the loss.

    You need to get over yourself. Nobody is gloating. Some just are able to see it for what it was. An enormous opportunity missed to make a final, given the gap between us and NZ has never been smaller (and never will be again) and the potential semi final was very winnable. And yet we came out and played miles below ourselves and allowed NZ build a 13 point lead. In the biggest game of these players' lives, they failed to deliver. And on the biggest stage, Irish rugby once again, failed to deliver.

    We need to f*cking shut up for the next 4 years. Stop anointing ourselves as the "best in the world" when w haven't earned it. Stop overhyping our players. Stop pretending November tests mean anything. Stop going mad celebrating 6N wins while other teams are prepping for the world cup. And stop doing laps of honour after pool wins. Until we actually get past the first hurdle at a World Cup, we need to collectively shut up. But we won't. We'll do exactly what we've always done and fail again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    It would also have been a pity for the competition if NZ or SA went home in the quarter finals. I've a feeling both the semi-finals will be over after 20 minutes as contests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jesus, so now we have to be embarrassed about celebrating winning a 6 Nations or Grand slam.

    Dear god.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    The rugby commandments of TRC10

    • Thou shalt not derive pleasure from international rugby outside World Cup knockout games
    • Thou shalt not contribute to a feel-good factor based on results outside the world cup
    • Thou shalt not acknowledge relative performance levels of teams outside the world cup
    • Thou (as a player/team) shalt not acknowledge the support of your fans
    • Thou shalt not get excited about players


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Awful lot of shite being talked about a team that was 2 moments away from a convincing win. Another day Sheehan snags that kick and Kelleher doesn't get held up, and NZ are piling onto their team instead.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    What this type of attitude also neglects is that we kids to be inspired to play rugby. This fundamentally depends on appreciation and acknowledgment of achievements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭Seadin


    Good teams always find a way to win even if they are put under pressure and things don't go to plan. Ireland didn't.


    Argentina might have a slim chance of going on to do the double world cup (soccer and rugby).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,409 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Going for the line instead of kicking points, when our line out is questionable at best, someone, anyone should have told JS hold his horses. This is one of the issues as to why he should never have been captain.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Kori Brave Sextant


    Four years is a long time.

    At the last World Cup we didn't have Keenan, Lowe, Hansen, Sheehan or Doris, all who have become important players.

    South Africa are never short of talent and will be right there as usual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Leslie Purkiss




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    We got over the line twice from a driving maul, Barret making an incredible tackle the difference between winning and losing.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Good teams always find a way to win 


    This is emphatically wrong. They don't always find a way, you have startling evidence of that just last night. Bizarre claim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,724 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I don't know how anyone can dis a win of what is probably the best international competition outside of the RWC.

    Rightly, every country that wins it celebrates it and every country that participates in it want to win it

    Ireland are never, ever going to not target it and anyone that doesn't understand that know very little about professional sport.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ScissorPaperRock


    Is your argument then that two good teams can never face each other?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    @Ash Splash post deleted and banned.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Ah lads, it's clear the players were under huge pressure. It was a massive game and you could see the tension on their faces before the game. They went 13-0 down, they made mistakes they usually wouldn't make, they were tight and didn't play with freedom, some ran out of energy early, these are all clear signs that the pressure and the occasion got to them. If you look up the definition of choking in sport, the performance by Ireland on Saturday matches the definition. It seems like a harsh term but it happens. Ireland choked on Saturday, that's sadly the fact. New Zealand have choked in the past, so have we multiple times. Denying it happened means you can't learn from it. We have to accept that it happened, figure out why, get information from teams and individuals who've overcome choking and implement processes to try to ensure it doesn't happen again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,736 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    In 2015 we played the Pumas missing POM; POC, SOB, J10 and lost Bowe inside 20 minutes. We'd have beaten them with a fully stacked side. Our depth wasn't very good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Its a panel game and looking at S. Africa last night their substitutes changed the game and rose the standard when called on. In our match against France our replacements didn't. S. Africa emptied the bench early and improved for it.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,319 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Yea this is true.

    I don’t want to pile on the lad but McCarthy’s attempted clear out on Whitelock for the penalty that won them the game was fairly pathetic, particularly when you consider he was a fresh player.

    A fresh Ryan or a fresh Henderson smash him off that ball.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,736 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    You speak as if N.Z are flush with beware talent coming along the conveyor belt. It's not so! There u20's are bang average. France are the side that will have years of success coming, judging by the quality they are producing.

    We are doing very well producing young talent. I think N.Z will have a bleak period in the short run.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Kinda glossing over how they overcame that poor start, fought their way back into the game and were one Barret thigh away from winning. It's the very opposite of choke and if Kelleher grounds that ball, arguably one of the greatest wins in the history of the tournament. If Barnes didn't swallow his whistle at the death, good chance we maul them over the line again.

    We lost to a great performance from NZ, who were fairly nervy themselves. Choking is what happened in 2003, 2011, 2019. Not this time around. This was **** **** luck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    You're kinda glossing over that this is a poor New Zealand team by their standards. They played with 14 for 20 minutes of the match. If we played to our potential, we would have won comfortably. We didn't play to our potential because the occasion got to us. All the signs are there as I pointed out. We choked. It is hard to accept but we have to accept it, blaming bad luck or the referee will mean we don't learn anything from this and the same thing happens in 4 years time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There are people using the word 'choke' who haven't a clue what it means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Musicrules




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭crusd


    Admit it, you are just here to troll...

    Because you obviously have no actual knowledge to fall back on or you would no there are no players on the path to residency who will be around in 2027



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