"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

Green Peter · 17-10-2023 9:24am

We had the winning of it, world cup quarter finals v new Zealand are mammoth games, I doubt the OP played any sport to any level if they did they wouldn't even think of starting a thread like this, but an armchair fan would.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 9:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248609#Comment_121248609

With respect Awec, 'could have, should have, would have' is the very essence of sport.

Of course everything you say is correct, but what actually happened, the reality of it is that 'that's sport' for you. France will be feeling the same, we are not alone.

You can still do the fault finding, analysis that should be done as to why it happened, while accepting the above.

awec · 17-10-2023 9:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248637#Comment_121248637

It's not really the same as France, France will definitely be back.

Will Ireland ever have an opportunity like this again? No, I don't think so, certainly not with this generation of players. We are losing too many key men, this was our peak when all our stars were aligned. We managed to keep a 38 year old Sexton fit. We had no real injury problems.

This was our opportunity and we didn't take it. We're now going to go through the dreaded transition phase, I fully expect our standards will drop, how far is anyones guess.

This is not like the previous exits, this one is way worse. This was honestly the opportunity of a lifetime for these players and we didn't perform to our very best.

17-10-2023 9:34am

People express hurt in different ways. As I said Sunday, I'll never watch that game again.

Cheap shots.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 9:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248659#Comment_121248659

Seriously?

What basis have you for that prognosis?

I agree by the way it was a great opportunity, but it didn't happen, as many many teams before have found before us and France after us. They certainly seen a home WC with the team they had as a huge opportunity.

I don't see why you are so depressed going forward. We may have to transition a bit but I have faith in the systems and structures that we can rebuild and we know the way back, we know what the effort has to be, and we have learned a bit more.

snotboogie · 17-10-2023 9:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248277#Comment_121248277

Both the JGP try and Aki try were very soft from a Kiwi perspective. Failure to execute basic tackles on their part.

Green Peter · 17-10-2023 9:53am

Only one team can win the competition, all the rest will be failures, sport is tough, armchair analysis of it is easy.

awec · 17-10-2023 10:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248742#Comment_121248742

These sort of posts are so vacuous.

Perhaps we should just close the forum down, since the entire purpose of a rugby forum is armchair analysis. What are you expecting here, 72 pages of "oh, sport is tough, it's grand, we'll just move on. Sure we won a series, it's grand, none of us were ever pro rugby players."

Yes, only one team can win the competition. If Ireland played to the best of their ability they had a very good chance of that one team being us. The best chance we've ever had. We didn't play to the best of our ability when it really, really mattered, and so we passed up on a monumental opportunity. It's bizarre how you don't get this.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 10:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248787#Comment_121248787

Who doesn't get it Awec?

I don't understand the gripe here. Or what you want to do about it bar analyse what went awry and try to do better the next time.

We have been here before, 'there'd never be another team like the one Brian O'Driscoll was on', etc etc but there was and it was better and it reached heights we (or certainly I) never thought could be reached.

walshb · 17-10-2023 10:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248787#Comment_121248787

They lost a match to an elite team that most folks would have made a 50/50. Lost by a very very small margin. Your whole argument is “didn’t perform to their best” is every bit as lazy as others you are criticising for their take.

NZ and Ireland made mistakes. It’s bound to happen. That’s what sport is about. We weren’t perfect, but rarely is any team “perfect.” NZ were quite a tough team to beat Saturday

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248873#Comment_121248873

I think that NZ team will make a strong challenge for the title now.

walshb · 17-10-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248960#Comment_121248960

They have every bit a chance to win as SA/Eng and Argentina.....I'd make them slight favorites.

Podge_irl · 17-10-2023 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248659#Comment_121248659

To be fair our U20s are looking very good year on year (albeit, perhaps not quite as good as France). I think the possibility is there for a regeneration that has us at the same/similar place in 4 years.

But this was definitely a missed opportunity. Ireland screwed up. That just doesn't mean that the previous four years or the philosophy and coaching was all inherently wrong. It's quite a lot to read into a held up try after all...

awec · 17-10-2023 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248873#Comment_121248873

They lost by a small margin, but they still lost. Losing by 1 point or losing by 100 points, it's still losing. Are we supposed to be comforted by the fact that we lost by less than a score? How bizarre, how small time.

There is some serious revisionism going on here in some inane attempt to avoid having to be in any way critical of the team. Ireland lost because they did not play to the best of their ability, for whatever reason people are continually glossing over this. This notion that Ireland had to play flawlessly to beat NZ on Saturday is also nonsense, again this is just revisionism trying to big up the opposition so as to avoid having to say anything negative.

If Ireland had played their best and lost, this "that's what sport is about" garbage would be valid, but we didn't and so this is an entirely vacuous point. It's meaningless.

Sport is about winning. World Cups are about getting the job done when it really, really matters. We didn't do this, which is why you're all here trying to find excuses about what went wrong, rather than just admit that we screwed it up.

castor 1 · 17-10-2023 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248659#Comment_121248659

How many WCs have France won ?

This tournament was in their back yard and they failed by tiny margins and nobody calls them chokers, because they are not, and neither are Ireland.

Although Ireland will be devastated by the loss they will be back too.

walshb · 17-10-2023 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249076#Comment_121249076

Your posting on this has a very arrogant (not you personally) “we are entitled to win” vibe off it.

We played some brilliant rugby and we made some errors.

Is this something that should NOT have happened? You can’t allow for errors?

Also, you absolutely need to factor in the strength and skill of the opposition. This was a 50/50 match. We came up short ever so slightly. I think folks are far too hung up on this world ranking..

on their day the top 4-5 teams can beat each other. We were very close to being winners last week

and just because some people aren’t “slating” the team doesn’t mean we are celebrating.

you don’t have to slate/diss a team to provide structured and balanced criticism.

ignorant folks bandying around the bottler talk is just peolme delighted we lost so they can do this.

FrankN1 · 17-10-2023 11:24am

Some think we bottled it and some think we didn't.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249076#Comment_121249076

There are valid criticisms Awec. But there are also invalid ones. That's the discussion.

They'll be addressed at the top level, of that I have no doubt.

Nobody is avoiding them. But the perspective has to be kept.

Every single weekend teams lose, that is as much a part of sport as winning is. Sport is about both and how you cope with both.

Blindly thinking that we should have win because there was some sort of mystical level we could attain is not right either.

Two equal teams went toe to toe and tragically, disappointingly, we were not able to get the score that mattered.

That hurts, that was a missed opportunity and nothing can now be done about that. Same situation has faced thousands of teams down the years.

All that can be done is to analyse what went wrong, what we can do better in future and to rebuild again.

I know there was no trade off - WC or bust - for me. I want to go again because that is why sport is great,

awec · 17-10-2023 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249057#Comment_121249057

I think the previous 4 years and the philosophy were spot on. I know nobody on here wants to admit it right now, but Ireland were going into this tournament with a view of winning it. That was the correct attitude, the opportunity here was huge. As I said before, this was the first time ever that Ireland could genuinely view themselves as legitimate contenders not requiring favourable draws or avoiding certain teams.

I think Farrell did a great job preparing us, he brought Irish Rugby to a level it hasn't been at before and expectations were, quite rightly, raised. We had set the bar higher for ourselves, again rightly so.

But we made a total balls of it on Saturday night. We didn't put in a performance where you can genuinely say we gave it our absolute best shot. We didn't die with our boots on. In reality, the performance was fine, it wasn't terrible but it certainly wasn't one I think the team will be delighted with.

Sexton is going to be a huge loss to this squad, not just on the field but also as someone who is well known to drive standards in training and off the field. POM will be a massive loss in the pack. Murray will be gone. Henderson, Beirne, these guys are going to be mid-30s. Gibson-Park will be 35, he's probably going to be gone. Lowe will be 35. Aki will be gone. Henshaw will be 34.

Bealham will be gone. Furlong is young enough to be around, but he isn't playing like someone who has 4 more years in the tank.

By the time the next RWC comes round a lot of the spine of this team will either be retired, or be in the absolute twilight years of their careers.

snotboogie · 17-10-2023 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249057#Comment_121249057

Thought we were extremely average from 11 to 15 at 20’s this year. I don’t recall seeing a standout center or back 3 at the 20’s level for some time, maybe King but he struggled for gametime. It’s a bit worrying when 4 of our starting 7 backs on Saturday came from outside the Irish system.

awec · 17-10-2023 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249102#Comment_121249102

We were not entitled to win, nobody is suggesting this. It's not arrogance either, it's just a general fed-up attitude toward some of the small time loser attitudes on here, pretending like we're still little old-Ireland who used to celebrate Triple Crowns and beating a big team now and again.

If we had played our best, nobody could have complained here. You said it yourself, on their day the top teams can beat each other.

On Saturday night, in our biggest game ever, we didn't make it our day. We didn't play our best. This is something worthy of criticism, if we cannot get ourselves right for games like this when where are we really?

"Ah sure, Ireland just screwed up the opportunity of a lifetime as they didn't play their best, but it's grand lads, that's just sport." Give me a break.

Podge_irl · 17-10-2023 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249123#Comment_121249123

I know there was no trade off - WC or bust - for me. I want to go again because that is why sport is great,

This is the main take away for me. There is no trade off, and I don't understand people who can't enjoy a 6N win for what it is.

awec · 17-10-2023 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249176#Comment_121249176

"For what it is" is the main point here. I can enjoy a 6N win.

A RWC win would have eclipsed any 6N win by quite a distance. No 6N win is going to take the edge off Saturday.

Green Peter · 17-10-2023 11:49am

Good teams get stopped playing well by better teams or better prepared teams tactically. The breaks didn't go our way, inches separated us from a win with the held up try. don't be looking to degrade a team who have brought us so close and the luck didn't go their way.

awec · 17-10-2023 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249217#Comment_121249217

Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with luck.

Podge_irl · 17-10-2023 11:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249186#Comment_121249186

Sure. I don't have an issue with your take on the World Cup. We absolutely did not take the chance that was presented to us.

Ultimately, on the defensive side I think NZ took advantage of an existing flaw in our shape that other teams haven't managed to do so and it's hard to change that mid-game (**** Joe). But on the attacking side for sure we fell down.

I stand by my view that we were playing at maybe 90% (call it 80% or whatever, it doesn't really matter), and that was still enough to bring us incredibly close against a NZ team we gave a 13 point headstart to. We have done a lot incredibly well, moreso than any other RWC. Perhaps that's why it hurts so bloody much. But the changes needed are small this time, and I think that is worth acknowledging.

awec · 17-10-2023 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249255#Comment_121249255

If the RWC happened every year this would hurt less, we'd get another go at it soon enough. If that were the case I'd agree, possibly small changes.

But the 4 year cycle does impact things quite significantly.

Green Peter · 17-10-2023 12:05pm

I disagree

Nermal · 17-10-2023 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249107#Comment_121249107

Surely in order to bottle something, you have to be near certain to win it and commit an unforced error to lose it.

Even SB51, mentioned earlier in the thread, doesn't qualify.

Now if we had a penalty 10m from the posts to win in the 81st minute and missed...

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 12:06pm

I think some people, even seasoned rugby followers, did allow themselves to feel a little bit entitled.

There are lessons to be learned there for them too.

See through the hype and media before a game.

Saturday was never more than a 50/50 shot. That's the bottom line.

"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

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