"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

Green Peter · 17-10-2023 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249228#Comment_121249228

I disagree

awec · 17-10-2023 12:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249296#Comment_121249296

Saturday was more than a 50/50 shot. Ireland playing to their potential, I would put their chances higher than a coin toss.

17-10-2023 12:10pm

One Northern Hemisphere team in 36 years have won this thing.

We were one of 4 equal favourites. You have to take your beating like a man sometimes. France were the ones at home. Imagine we lost in the Aviva. Perspective and treating the the two imposters the same etc.

Some of you think the team owed you personally. I'm feeling it more than you, I'm a much better rugby supporter than you BS. Well you're going to have to go cheer yourself up if that's your attitude. Because no one died, and no one is going to put up with that. It's called 'sport' for a reason.

Podge_irl · 17-10-2023 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249303#Comment_121249303

Ireland playing at the level they did still made it basically a coin toss. Had we played to our potential we should have been 10 points clear. But we didn't for whatever reason - I'm sure some of that was NZ but not all of it.

Water John · 17-10-2023 12:13pm

This is a great read on last weekends rugby by a great writer. The losing and winning margin was very fine in both games in Paris. Flagellating the two teams that lost, really doesn't understand sport.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/17/how-world-cup-quarter-final-drama-turned-the-key-to-rugby-heaven

Strazdas · 17-10-2023 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249255#Comment_121249255

Were we at 90% because NZ disrupted our play though and wouldn't let us get to 100%? Teams can dip below their usual form if they come up against a very strong opponent - not a given that we would have beaten them on any other day either.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249303#Comment_121249303

NZ always had the potential to match us. They did. It's what many of us fretted and debated about for months in the lead up.

Clearly some were not listening and just assumed we would be let play the game on our terms.

Buer · 17-10-2023 12:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249296#Comment_121249296

I think it was better than 50/50 and we were rightly marginal favourites ahead of the game. But we didn't deliver on the night.

I'd agree that I think a section of support had themselves convinced we were in the final already though given the potentially weaker semi final opponent. And I think NZ absolutely used that feeling (which was absolutely magnified by the media, both Irish and foreign) to feed their motivation.

They really wanted to put one over on Ireland. I don't think many in Ireland picked up on the edge between the two teams in advance (and it may have largely been one sided) but NZ took that and ran with it. You could see how much they enjoyed it and got into a bit of sledging towards Sexton and POM.

Furze99 · 17-10-2023 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249156#Comment_121249156

Things didn't go well from the start: partly due to NZ pressure & tactics, partly due to some questionable refereeing, partly due to luck and the bounce of the ball. Luck comes into sport as much as anything at this level. On a different day, some of these factors would be the other way and we'd have prevailed. It was effectively a semi final that we narrowly lost - just how it goes. I'd agree with others though that leaving a knackered Sexton on the pitch wasn't great - no room for sentiment or wishful thinking.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249384#Comment_121249384

We were slight favourites...IF...and that 'if' was, or should have been for any rational person, a huge part of the thinking.

We were slight favourites if NZ brought a certain game, the one they had been playing.

As we know now (and I certainly thought it was possible) they didn't bring that game they brought a much better game than they had been playing.

I agree on what motivated them and how much they enjoyed the win.

Strazdas · 17-10-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249407#Comment_121249407

I think we were a bit blinded by the No.1 ranking and the 17 match unbeaten run. If anything, those two stats may well have worked against us in the knockout stages. (Having said that, even if NZ had been favourite and we had been underdogs, we might still have lost narrowly....it's all conjecture).

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249445#Comment_121249445

The 'could have's, would have's, might have's, hopes and disappointments' that keep sport being played for centuries, because that is the lifeblood of it, essentially. And long may it continue.

Dubinusa · 17-10-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248659#Comment_121248659

We will be back. Stronger imo. The landscape in rugby looks bleak for quite a few nations. Us and France on the other hand, have the young talent to keep standards high. Our young lads coming through are brilliant! The level is outstanding. I've full faith for the future.

17-10-2023 1:08pm

Let's cut to the chase about posters totally denouncing our performance against New Zealand.

Are they doing it out of concern for the team? No.

Are they doing it out of concern for Irish Rugby? No.

Is it self pity? Yes, absolutely. They were sure we'd win and they were going to derive great personal pleasure from this. Now they want someone to blame because they didn't get their jollies.

Two words. THAT'S LIFE

17-10-2023 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249547#Comment_121249547

100% 2 U20 Grand Slam teams etc. Better position now than 4 years ago.

Dubinusa · 17-10-2023 1:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249594#Comment_121249594

No doubt. Some serious players in there.

awec · 17-10-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249589#Comment_121249589

Is this really the depths we're at now? What absolute rot.

Nobody was sure we'd win, it amazes me how you still don't get this at all.

Nobody is totally denouncing our performance, have you not been paying attention?

Our performance against New Zealand was not up to our usual standard. This is a fact, I think even the most myopic, pom-pom waving denier of reality has to accept this. This "totally denouncing" our performance stuff is just more vacuous nonsense, nobody is doing this, but again, people who for some reason are very uncomfortable saying anything negative are engaging in total revisionism here.

The performance was ok, it wasn't awful, it also wasn't great. This was not Ireland giving it absolutely everything and just being beaten by a better team. That is absolutely not what happened, no matter how many times you try and convince yourself of it.

The reason I am frustrated, and therefore unwilling to write this off as "just sport", or "sure we won the series", or "sure we'll do well in the 6 nations again" is that I really cared, this was the chance to do something that would have totally eclipsed any achievement in our past. The chance was there and we didn't give it our very best shot. How anyone can be so willing to just shrug that off is beyond me.

"That's life" - why would you even bother.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

If you hadn't considered that there is no 'usual standard' that our performances have been variable then you may have cared but you didn't take care to allow for the possibilities.

Our performance varied on Saturday, from nervous to very good to making mistakes. So too did NZ's but they prevailed. That is what happens when two even teams go toe to toe.

Please don't try and say now that you 'cared more' than others. Again that is just rubbish. You cared but you didn't allow for that essential quotient of an evenly balanced contest - unpredictability.

jackal · 17-10-2023 1:31pm

It’s very disappointing but there you go. Everyone cared, everyone knew that this team had the potential to do it. The draw meant two of the quarters were going to see two of the top four gone. All would have seen themselves as contenders, not least France… at home!

What’s your suggestion other than shrugging it off?

Hoboo · 17-10-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

They didn't have anything left to give at the whistle. That's giving everything, no?

17-10-2023 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

We're all out of step only Johnny. Do you read replies? You're the one not getting it.

17-10-2023 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

With all due respect a lot more people agree with my view point than yours.

Iamabeliever · 17-10-2023 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248787#Comment_121248787

Why do you think they didn't perform to their max?

How did you rate new Zealand chances following the RC?

Do you think the Irish players are far superior in skill level to NZ?

Did you think having to prepare for a game against Scotland had a negative impact the week previous?

Was their too many players underperforming and why? Doris, Lowe, vdf, Beirne, Sheehan, Furlong, JGP

NZ made mince meat of the breakdown, why did the Irish management not foresee this knowing what they knew about Schmitt and Barnes?

Following a ropey start to the first and second half, I was still confident we would win only for Kelleher seeing his name in lights! I don't really see this as a doom and gloom scenario just yet.

Podge_irl · 17-10-2023 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249699#Comment_121249699

I mean, they didn't perform to the level they are capable of or the level they should have. It's a far, far cry from previous world cups but there will obviously be lessons to be learned there.

We never fully fixed the lineout, and we were clearly leaving too much space in behind in midfield. We made mistakes and we should have won that game - it wasn't a 50/50 that didn't go our way.

I absolutely don't think we need to tear everything down. I think we got 99% of things right, but we underperformed in one of our most important matches everywhere and that can't be overlooked.

17-10-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

Everything posters say to you is vacuous 😁 If you have the liberty of saying that about posts. I'm going to take the liberty of calling the content of your posts child like, arrogant, entitled and delusional, evidencing a superiority complex.

Maybe write a strongly worded letter to the IRFU about how you were personally let down. Maybe we'll have a genesis report into the 4 point loss. Andrew Porter might have to appear infront of a tribunal to explain his scrummaging on the night. Surely Paul O'Connell needs sentencing over the lineout malfunctions in all games bar Scotland.

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248630#Comment_121248630

It's hilarious that you don't seem to realise that this thread was started before the match took place...

I bet the revisionists here would love if the OP was deleted though, it is awkward for them that the pregame OP lists out all the reasons that Ireland were considered favourites. Reasons they now want to pretend didn't exist.

Fact is, nobody batted a **** eyelid when the OP said Ireland would be a laughing stock if they lost, everybody knew it was true. No matter what a small few totally genuine posters are trying to pretend now.

17-10-2023 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249745#Comment_121249745

Venjur put a lot of effort into a great opener. If people had reservations with his post they weren't going to nitpick with a volunteer over one line.

There are no revisionists, just realists.

17-10-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

The only 'absolute rot' is coming from you all morning. You win, you lose, you do both with dignity and grace.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249745#Comment_121249745

The OP says what his/her predication is predicated on - NZ's form BEFORE the tournament. Which was correct. They had a serious dip in form.

But that wasn't the form they brought into the game on Saturday night, they surprised even their own supporters.

AbusesToilets · 17-10-2023 1:51pm

I think we played better in that match than we did against England for example. Our attacking shape was consistent and effective from the start, we were able to make ground at will, right up to the death. There were probably 5 incidents that cost us: Keenan's rushed pass to Lowe, JGP having a stroke and falling into retallick under the posts, JGP's wide pass attempt that was picked off, the crossfield kicks, and getting turned over after making counter attack break deep in the 2nd half.

We were much better than NZ in attack, they failed consistently to break through our defense. Two moments of genius aside, they got nothing out of us.

"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

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