"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

Dubinusa · 17-10-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248659#Comment_121248659

We will be back. Stronger imo. The landscape in rugby looks bleak for quite a few nations. Us and France on the other hand, have the young talent to keep standards high. Our young lads coming through are brilliant! The level is outstanding. I've full faith for the future.

17-10-2023 1:08pm

Let's cut to the chase about posters totally denouncing our performance against New Zealand.

Are they doing it out of concern for the team? No.

Are they doing it out of concern for Irish Rugby? No.

Is it self pity? Yes, absolutely. They were sure we'd win and they were going to derive great personal pleasure from this. Now they want someone to blame because they didn't get their jollies.

Two words. THAT'S LIFE

17-10-2023 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249547#Comment_121249547

100% 2 U20 Grand Slam teams etc. Better position now than 4 years ago.

Dubinusa · 17-10-2023 1:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249594#Comment_121249594

No doubt. Some serious players in there.

awec · 17-10-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249589#Comment_121249589

Is this really the depths we're at now? What absolute rot.

Nobody was sure we'd win, it amazes me how you still don't get this at all.

Nobody is totally denouncing our performance, have you not been paying attention?

Our performance against New Zealand was not up to our usual standard. This is a fact, I think even the most myopic, pom-pom waving denier of reality has to accept this. This "totally denouncing" our performance stuff is just more vacuous nonsense, nobody is doing this, but again, people who for some reason are very uncomfortable saying anything negative are engaging in total revisionism here.

The performance was ok, it wasn't awful, it also wasn't great. This was not Ireland giving it absolutely everything and just being beaten by a better team. That is absolutely not what happened, no matter how many times you try and convince yourself of it.

The reason I am frustrated, and therefore unwilling to write this off as "just sport", or "sure we won the series", or "sure we'll do well in the 6 nations again" is that I really cared, this was the chance to do something that would have totally eclipsed any achievement in our past. The chance was there and we didn't give it our very best shot. How anyone can be so willing to just shrug that off is beyond me.

"That's life" - why would you even bother.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

If you hadn't considered that there is no 'usual standard' that our performances have been variable then you may have cared but you didn't take care to allow for the possibilities.

Our performance varied on Saturday, from nervous to very good to making mistakes. So too did NZ's but they prevailed. That is what happens when two even teams go toe to toe.

Please don't try and say now that you 'cared more' than others. Again that is just rubbish. You cared but you didn't allow for that essential quotient of an evenly balanced contest - unpredictability.

jackal · 17-10-2023 1:31pm

It’s very disappointing but there you go. Everyone cared, everyone knew that this team had the potential to do it. The draw meant two of the quarters were going to see two of the top four gone. All would have seen themselves as contenders, not least France… at home!

What’s your suggestion other than shrugging it off?

Hoboo · 17-10-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

They didn't have anything left to give at the whistle. That's giving everything, no?

17-10-2023 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

We're all out of step only Johnny. Do you read replies? You're the one not getting it.

17-10-2023 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

With all due respect a lot more people agree with my view point than yours.

Iamabeliever · 17-10-2023 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248787#Comment_121248787

Why do you think they didn't perform to their max?

How did you rate new Zealand chances following the RC?

Do you think the Irish players are far superior in skill level to NZ?

Did you think having to prepare for a game against Scotland had a negative impact the week previous?

Was their too many players underperforming and why? Doris, Lowe, vdf, Beirne, Sheehan, Furlong, JGP

NZ made mince meat of the breakdown, why did the Irish management not foresee this knowing what they knew about Schmitt and Barnes?

Following a ropey start to the first and second half, I was still confident we would win only for Kelleher seeing his name in lights! I don't really see this as a doom and gloom scenario just yet.

Podge_irl · 17-10-2023 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249699#Comment_121249699

I mean, they didn't perform to the level they are capable of or the level they should have. It's a far, far cry from previous world cups but there will obviously be lessons to be learned there.

We never fully fixed the lineout, and we were clearly leaving too much space in behind in midfield. We made mistakes and we should have won that game - it wasn't a 50/50 that didn't go our way.

I absolutely don't think we need to tear everything down. I think we got 99% of things right, but we underperformed in one of our most important matches everywhere and that can't be overlooked.

17-10-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

Everything posters say to you is vacuous 😁 If you have the liberty of saying that about posts. I'm going to take the liberty of calling the content of your posts child like, arrogant, entitled and delusional, evidencing a superiority complex.

Maybe write a strongly worded letter to the IRFU about how you were personally let down. Maybe we'll have a genesis report into the 4 point loss. Andrew Porter might have to appear infront of a tribunal to explain his scrummaging on the night. Surely Paul O'Connell needs sentencing over the lineout malfunctions in all games bar Scotland.

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248630#Comment_121248630

It's hilarious that you don't seem to realise that this thread was started before the match took place...

I bet the revisionists here would love if the OP was deleted though, it is awkward for them that the pregame OP lists out all the reasons that Ireland were considered favourites. Reasons they now want to pretend didn't exist.

Fact is, nobody batted a **** eyelid when the OP said Ireland would be a laughing stock if they lost, everybody knew it was true. No matter what a small few totally genuine posters are trying to pretend now.

17-10-2023 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249745#Comment_121249745

Venjur put a lot of effort into a great opener. If people had reservations with his post they weren't going to nitpick with a volunteer over one line.

There are no revisionists, just realists.

17-10-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

The only 'absolute rot' is coming from you all morning. You win, you lose, you do both with dignity and grace.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249745#Comment_121249745

The OP says what his/her predication is predicated on - NZ's form BEFORE the tournament. Which was correct. They had a serious dip in form.

But that wasn't the form they brought into the game on Saturday night, they surprised even their own supporters.

AbusesToilets · 17-10-2023 1:51pm

I think we played better in that match than we did against England for example. Our attacking shape was consistent and effective from the start, we were able to make ground at will, right up to the death. There were probably 5 incidents that cost us: Keenan's rushed pass to Lowe, JGP having a stroke and falling into retallick under the posts, JGP's wide pass attempt that was picked off, the crossfield kicks, and getting turned over after making counter attack break deep in the 2nd half.

We were much better than NZ in attack, they failed consistently to break through our defense. Two moments of genius aside, they got nothing out of us.

awec · 17-10-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249796#Comment_121249796

The OP was written on Saturday afternoon. This is pure revisionism again.

The OP also made another post on the opening page:

This is the biggest game in Irish rugby history.

We are for the first time undeniably on a level playing field with the best teams in the world. Plucky excuses are for former Irish teams, not for this one.

Were in form, we've come fully loaded with a cohort of genuinely world class players and we might have the best coach currently plying their trade in the game.

Honestly, if every Irish player and every Irish supporter isn't up for this with the biggest, thickest 'come the **** at me bro' head on them then were in entirely the wrong sport.

Believe.

This is also spot on, especially the part about plucky excuses being beneath this current team. But yet, here we are, drowning in plucky excuses.

awec · 17-10-2023 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249744#Comment_121249744

I think maybe where you're going wrong is in thinking the IRFU give a crap what me or you think, perhaps this is why you feel compelled to offer up a defence to any criticism whatsoever of the team, as if they're going to be reading this and need you to look after them.

Ireland's line out has subpar for a while now, of course it would only be natural to try and understand if it's a coaching issue. I am sure that will be looked at.

CMcsporty · 17-10-2023 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249837#Comment_121249837

There can be no excuses

The better team won

It happens

it’s just that it happened yet again

If the game was played another 8 times either team could win

Its all on the day

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249796#Comment_121249796

Of all the spin you have tried in this thread, your tortured use of "form" must rank near the top.

I'd ask just what on earth you think form actually is, but I think you would get too much pleasure out of attempting to revise the definition.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249837#Comment_121249837

This is the biggest game in Irish rugby history.

We are for the first time undeniably on a level playing field with the best teams in the world. Plucky excuses are for former Irish teams, not for this one.

Were in form, we've come fully loaded with a cohort of genuinely world class players and we might have the best coach currently plying their trade in the game.

Honestly, if every Irish player and every Irish supporter isn't up for this with the biggest, thickest 'come the **** at me bro' head on them then were in entirely the wrong sport.

Believe.

You didn't fully take on board the bolded bit, did you Awec?

And I am not making excuses, I know why we lost. That's right Awec, we LOST. To a better team on the night in a battle that was always going to be on a level playing field.

Your posting has a real bang of throwing toys out of the pram to be honest./

awec · 17-10-2023 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249909#Comment_121249909

"The better team won" is accurate but lacks context.

"The team that played closer to their potential won" is a more accurate description of Saturday night.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249920#Comment_121249920

Explain what you mean by 'tortured'?

All match thread OP's assess the form of the teams in the game.

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249909#Comment_121249909

Reminds me of that Onion article.

"It's just unlucky" says the team that this keeps happening to.

17-10-2023 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249885#Comment_121249885

I'm not saying they're immune to criticism. I just don't understand how you can't understand that performance can vary in the very best teams. They're not a machine. Take the opposition into account, the occasion.

I'm asking this genuinely and for genuine reasons. Have you played sport? And to what level? And before you say oh that's irrelevant, it's not. Your arguments remind me of people who may follow sport a lot but don't know what it's like to be on the pitch under severe pressure, before, during and after. You seem like a fella who says, this is the form, these are the stats but on a human level haven't an iota what can go wrong.

I've played inter county GAA, I've coached a lot. That's my background. I know what goes wrong on either side of the line in my sport. If I was Andy Farrell I'd be going through every miniscule part of everything to do with the WC. From player time management to all the technical aspects. But in managing players you have to be skilled. All those lads gave everything and are beating themselves up. You don't offer support and you drive them to bad form with club and country, depression etc.

When a team gives their all, I'll back them. And work on the inadequacies and errors behind closed doors.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249926#Comment_121249926

In a game between equals that is what invariably happens. Unless it goes to a kicking contest

Strazdas · 17-10-2023 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249926#Comment_121249926

That latter statement would apply to many a knockout cup match. One team has to eliminate the other - it's almost inevitable with the stakes being so high that one side might handle the challenge better than the other.

hahashake · 17-10-2023 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249796#Comment_121249796

NZ recent form wasn't as bad as some people think. 3/3 in the rugby Championship including a 35-20 win over South Africa for eventual silverware that has been overshadowed by a friendly.

But more importantly, a good chunk of this team were playing in 2015. Heck, Whitelock was playing in 2011. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

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