"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

Iamabeliever · 17-10-2023 12:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248787#Comment_121248787

Why do you think they didn't perform to their max?

How did you rate new Zealand chances following the RC?

Do you think the Irish players are far superior in skill level to NZ?

Did you think having to prepare for a game against Scotland had a negative impact the week previous?

Was their too many players underperforming and why? Doris, Lowe, vdf, Beirne, Sheehan, Furlong, JGP

NZ made mince meat of the breakdown, why did the Irish management not foresee this knowing what they knew about Schmitt and Barnes?

Following a ropey start to the first and second half, I was still confident we would win only for Kelleher seeing his name in lights! I don't really see this as a doom and gloom scenario just yet.

Podge_irl · 17-10-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249699#Comment_121249699

I mean, they didn't perform to the level they are capable of or the level they should have. It's a far, far cry from previous world cups but there will obviously be lessons to be learned there.

We never fully fixed the lineout, and we were clearly leaving too much space in behind in midfield. We made mistakes and we should have won that game - it wasn't a 50/50 that didn't go our way.

I absolutely don't think we need to tear everything down. I think we got 99% of things right, but we underperformed in one of our most important matches everywhere and that can't be overlooked.

17-10-2023 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

Everything posters say to you is vacuous 😁 If you have the liberty of saying that about posts. I'm going to take the liberty of calling the content of your posts child like, arrogant, entitled and delusional, evidencing a superiority complex.

Maybe write a strongly worded letter to the IRFU about how you were personally let down. Maybe we'll have a genesis report into the 4 point loss. Andrew Porter might have to appear infront of a tribunal to explain his scrummaging on the night. Surely Paul O'Connell needs sentencing over the lineout malfunctions in all games bar Scotland.

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248630#Comment_121248630

It's hilarious that you don't seem to realise that this thread was started before the match took place...

I bet the revisionists here would love if the OP was deleted though, it is awkward for them that the pregame OP lists out all the reasons that Ireland were considered favourites. Reasons they now want to pretend didn't exist.

Fact is, nobody batted a **** eyelid when the OP said Ireland would be a laughing stock if they lost, everybody knew it was true. No matter what a small few totally genuine posters are trying to pretend now.

17-10-2023 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249745#Comment_121249745

Venjur put a lot of effort into a great opener. If people had reservations with his post they weren't going to nitpick with a volunteer over one line.

There are no revisionists, just realists.

17-10-2023 12:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249641#Comment_121249641

The only 'absolute rot' is coming from you all morning. You win, you lose, you do both with dignity and grace.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249745#Comment_121249745

The OP says what his/her predication is predicated on - NZ's form BEFORE the tournament. Which was correct. They had a serious dip in form.

But that wasn't the form they brought into the game on Saturday night, they surprised even their own supporters.

AbusesToilets · 17-10-2023 12:51pm

I think we played better in that match than we did against England for example. Our attacking shape was consistent and effective from the start, we were able to make ground at will, right up to the death. There were probably 5 incidents that cost us: Keenan's rushed pass to Lowe, JGP having a stroke and falling into retallick under the posts, JGP's wide pass attempt that was picked off, the crossfield kicks, and getting turned over after making counter attack break deep in the 2nd half.

We were much better than NZ in attack, they failed consistently to break through our defense. Two moments of genius aside, they got nothing out of us.

awec · 17-10-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249796#Comment_121249796

The OP was written on Saturday afternoon. This is pure revisionism again.

The OP also made another post on the opening page:

This is the biggest game in Irish rugby history.

We are for the first time undeniably on a level playing field with the best teams in the world. Plucky excuses are for former Irish teams, not for this one.

Were in form, we've come fully loaded with a cohort of genuinely world class players and we might have the best coach currently plying their trade in the game.

Honestly, if every Irish player and every Irish supporter isn't up for this with the biggest, thickest 'come the **** at me bro' head on them then were in entirely the wrong sport.

Believe.

This is also spot on, especially the part about plucky excuses being beneath this current team. But yet, here we are, drowning in plucky excuses.

awec · 17-10-2023 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249744#Comment_121249744

I think maybe where you're going wrong is in thinking the IRFU give a crap what me or you think, perhaps this is why you feel compelled to offer up a defence to any criticism whatsoever of the team, as if they're going to be reading this and need you to look after them.

Ireland's line out has subpar for a while now, of course it would only be natural to try and understand if it's a coaching issue. I am sure that will be looked at.

CMcsporty · 17-10-2023 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249837#Comment_121249837

There can be no excuses

The better team won

It happens

it’s just that it happened yet again

If the game was played another 8 times either team could win

Its all on the day

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249796#Comment_121249796

Of all the spin you have tried in this thread, your tortured use of "form" must rank near the top.

I'd ask just what on earth you think form actually is, but I think you would get too much pleasure out of attempting to revise the definition.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249837#Comment_121249837

This is the biggest game in Irish rugby history.

We are for the first time undeniably on a level playing field with the best teams in the world. Plucky excuses are for former Irish teams, not for this one.

Were in form, we've come fully loaded with a cohort of genuinely world class players and we might have the best coach currently plying their trade in the game.

Honestly, if every Irish player and every Irish supporter isn't up for this with the biggest, thickest 'come the **** at me bro' head on them then were in entirely the wrong sport.

Believe.

You didn't fully take on board the bolded bit, did you Awec?

And I am not making excuses, I know why we lost. That's right Awec, we LOST. To a better team on the night in a battle that was always going to be on a level playing field.

Your posting has a real bang of throwing toys out of the pram to be honest./

awec · 17-10-2023 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249909#Comment_121249909

"The better team won" is accurate but lacks context.

"The team that played closer to their potential won" is a more accurate description of Saturday night.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249920#Comment_121249920

Explain what you mean by 'tortured'?

All match thread OP's assess the form of the teams in the game.

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 1:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249909#Comment_121249909

Reminds me of that Onion article.

"It's just unlucky" says the team that this keeps happening to.

17-10-2023 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249885#Comment_121249885

I'm not saying they're immune to criticism. I just don't understand how you can't understand that performance can vary in the very best teams. They're not a machine. Take the opposition into account, the occasion.

I'm asking this genuinely and for genuine reasons. Have you played sport? And to what level? And before you say oh that's irrelevant, it's not. Your arguments remind me of people who may follow sport a lot but don't know what it's like to be on the pitch under severe pressure, before, during and after. You seem like a fella who says, this is the form, these are the stats but on a human level haven't an iota what can go wrong.

I've played inter county GAA, I've coached a lot. That's my background. I know what goes wrong on either side of the line in my sport. If I was Andy Farrell I'd be going through every miniscule part of everything to do with the WC. From player time management to all the technical aspects. But in managing players you have to be skilled. All those lads gave everything and are beating themselves up. You don't offer support and you drive them to bad form with club and country, depression etc.

When a team gives their all, I'll back them. And work on the inadequacies and errors behind closed doors.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249926#Comment_121249926

In a game between equals that is what invariably happens. Unless it goes to a kicking contest

Strazdas · 17-10-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249926#Comment_121249926

That latter statement would apply to many a knockout cup match. One team has to eliminate the other - it's almost inevitable with the stakes being so high that one side might handle the challenge better than the other.

hahashake · 17-10-2023 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249796#Comment_121249796

NZ recent form wasn't as bad as some people think. 3/3 in the rugby Championship including a 35-20 win over South Africa for eventual silverware that has been overshadowed by a friendly.

But more importantly, a good chunk of this team were playing in 2015. Heck, Whitelock was playing in 2011. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

awec · 17-10-2023 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249982#Comment_121249982

It might apply to many but it definitely applied to ours.

Again, if Ireland had played to our potential and still lost nobody could complain. "That's sport" etc would be valid.

We didn't play to our potential in the biggest game in our history, it's totally valid to criticise this fact and not accept shrugging it off as if it's some minor thing.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:21pm

It a bizarre take.

It's almost as if some posters thought NZ should remain passive and only play to the form they had coming into the game.

'How dare you raise your game/play better!'

Sleepy · 17-10-2023 1:21pm

I think the "bottled" phrase is quite emotive and a bit harsh. Did Ireland play to their potential: no. Did the way New Zealand played contribute to that: unquestionably so. And yet, it was still a narrow win.

I can't see it as bottling it for the team to underperform against such quality opposition. Bottling it would be South Africa losing their semi to England or New Zealand going out to Argentina.

Iamabeliever · 17-10-2023 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249547#Comment_121249547

I think the irfu need to plan the development of these young men to maximise potential. It's pointless keeping them at Leinster for years on years getting limited URC action. Ulster need an influx of talent and possibly get rid of a few dead woods.

hahashake · 17-10-2023 1:27pm

There is a slightly circular logic to choking. "We are much better and therefore we choked - but you need to ignore the fact that maybe we weren't as good as we thought based on the evidence of the game"

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249997#Comment_121249997

Careful now, you might get caught having to explain why Ireland didn't play to their form either.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:36pm

One of the regrets not making a final is seeing how we would have fared against SA again if they made it past ENG

They went up in quality about 20/30% to beat France IMO

17-10-2023 1:38pm

There are very few posts here saying, 'I hope the players are ok', 'Jesus it's tough on those lads putting 4 years into the effort' etc.

No we're in the business of selfish fan reflected glory. A symptom of our times.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250082#Comment_121250082

Wha?

I can explain why they didn't. And have.

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250004#Comment_121250004

The IRFU needs to isolate the young lads away from the "Oh well, that's unlucky, pat on the back, it was just a bad draw" crowd. That's the mentality that leaves them as also rans.

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250084#Comment_121250084

Stepping up when it matters, imagine that.

Vinnie222 · 17-10-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250103#Comment_121250103

Exactly.3 of the 4 top teams did .

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250095#Comment_121250095

Yeh, get them together with the 'you are entitled to this' go get it' 'nobody is going to stand in your way' crowd,.

😁😁

Do what any professional outfit does, analyse their game fairly, criticise if it is warranted, and teach them that they can always do better and to never take something for granted and believe in the hype or random people on the net.

17-10-2023 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250119#Comment_121250119

Do you think France stepped up? They wouldn't play as loosely again in the opening half if they had that game again.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250103#Comment_121250103

Exactly, I think you might finally be cottoning on. We stepped up and it just wasn't enough.

We'll never know if we could have matched them in a second game.

walshb · 17-10-2023 1:59pm

Some a the guff about us accepting losing is farcical. Do folks really believe the team and all that goes into producing world class rugby players have this “we did our best” mentality? The players are intense machines who play to win. The “we did our best” brigade is far more from the begrudgers and those who use it as a stick to beat with.

Iamabeliever · 17-10-2023 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250095#Comment_121250095

In fairness to the irfu, they have created the most successful sporting dynasty you will likely see come from this wee island, so hats off to them. Ireland just aren't that good at sport in general.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250207#Comment_121250207

When you compare it to the RU's around us, they are light years ahead.

17-10-2023 2:12pm

The Kiwi lads on here speak of 1991-2007. Greats like Richie McCaw went through loss at a WC QF. Cully, Jonah, Kronfeldt, Mehrtens no WC. Players every bit as good, or better, than Earls, Johnny etc. Think of all the French greats with no WC. Now including Dupont, so far in his career, but no guarantees. One northern hemisphere winner ever. That's the big picture. All bottlers!!!

17-10-2023 2:15pm

All my life I'm hearing there'll never be another Geoghegan, Wood, O'Driscoll. There won't.

But others come around and bring their own qualities and form part of another team, era.

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250134#Comment_121250134

Good man, you earlier admitted that Ireland were not at their best and now you say that actually they stepped it up.

A good illustration of your intentions here.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250283#Comment_121250283

I am around since the 'there will never be another Willie John McBride' days. 😁

And there never was, but there was just as good and better. Good job nobody folded the tent and gave up,

bucketybuck · 17-10-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250207#Comment_121250207

Despite some mistakes made, I am a big fan of Andy Farrell. I think he created an environment and a situation where everything was as good as it possibly could have been for Ireland to succeed. He teed it up and the players left it behind them.

I hope he sticks around, I'm not sure he will though, it must be hard to swallow on his part and he may feel England would have a different end result.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250297#Comment_121250297

After a bad start, they did. Several times to haul NZ back in. Were not able to do it at the end. Lost by one score.

17-10-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250300#Comment_121250300

It could be worse... if you said Jackie Kyle I'd say hello Mr. Hook! How's the lovely Ingrid😁

Iamabeliever · 17-10-2023 2:28pm

As good as new Zealand/South africa were last Saturday. I think either England or Argentina might pull off a shock!

Would love to see English lift the web Ellis

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 2:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250307#Comment_121250307

The last thing Farrell is, is petulant. He will take his share of the responsibility like the man he is and won't blame his players.

If you did know anything about him you'd know he doesn't do blame, he will quietly assess the performances and pinpoint the multifactorial reasons why it didn't go to plan, what NZ did to disrupt the plan and ultimately how to avoid it in future.

He's a pro in other words, the toys will stay in the pram.

17-10-2023 2:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250334#Comment_121250334

If England don't win it outright they're nothing but a shower of bottlers, largest rugby playing population, final experience 2019😂

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 2:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250334#Comment_121250334

I think SA will be vunerable. It's possible. It's cup final sport after all.

Green Peter · 17-10-2023 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249745#Comment_121249745

Ireland isn't a laughing stock, it's just a few who like to tell everyone they knew better when they made a half prediction on a game that was 50/50 at best. They seem to have a problem with people thinking Ireland had even the 50/50 chance. We lost move on.

"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

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