Cult of Stephen Kenny

Can people actually acknowledge the real problem, then things can move forward.

Irish football is on its knees and have no players coming through (Ferguson is a total exception). If you think it is bad now, in 5 years time it could be worse and even the best manager in the world would do well to get Ireland to 3rd in a qualfying group. Add to that, the FAI has no money, so they will either be looking at a league one standard manager or someone who has retired and will come out of retirement for a handy gig (Steve Bruce)

The future is bleak and unless people put their energies into the real problem instead of the superficial "manager is the problem" then Ireland will keep descending into the lower depths of European football

Its been disappointing but this is needlessly melodramatic.

You are vastly over-estimating the influence of an international manager if you think that a week every two month for two or three years is going to set a player back four to six years.

For what it's worth, I don't think Kenny was regressive. He tried to get the players playing a style of football that didn't suit them. He should have adapted and been more pragmatic but its not like he was training them poorly or coaching them in antiquated methods. As far as I can recall, he hasn't had major fallings out with players so its not like they are traumatised from playing under him.

The players will go back to their day-to-day regime at their clubs and when a new manager comes in for the national team, they'll get a new philosophy and a new approach and they'll forget about Stephen Kenny. And the long-term issues in Irish football, such as a struggling national league, poor in-country youth development, the bankrupted national association and an over-reliance on foreign systems, will continue to be ignored.

Plenty of players available. I don't buy this players are not there argument.

I looked a post I made a while ago went through the side Kenny named v the Dutch and the a few who would have played if fit/selected -

English Premier League - O'Shea, Coleman*, Egan, Doherty, Ogbene, Cullen, Ferguson*, Obafemi, Kelleher (9)

English Championship - Bazunu, Duffy, Browne, Knight, Idah, Smallbone, Armstrong, Manning, Hendrick, Molumby, W. Keane*, Coventry*, Robinson* (13)

English League Two - McClean

Serie A - Ebosele

SPL - McGrath

It does not THAT bad - a core of a higher English championship type side or Lower Premier League.

It made me think is this current Kenny ROI squad worse than NI who qualified for Euro 2016?

--

So I looked at the NI team that qualified for Euro 2016 for a bit of contrast.

A team which lost 1-0 to Germany. (which was real backs to the wall) not one for the 'purists'

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1035167/Live/International-European-Championship-2016-Northern-Ireland-Germany

Also beat Ukraine 2-0 and lost to Poland 1-0 - narrowly making the knock outs of a tournament proper

At that time:

English Premier League - McGovern, Cathcart, McAuley, Davis, J.Evans (5)

English Championship - McGovern, Lafferty, Dallas, Norwood, C.Evans, Ward, Baird (7)

League One - McLaughlin, McCullough, Grigg (3)

League Two - Carroll

SPL - McGinn, Magennis, Mannus (3)

A-League - Hughes

--

So it looks to me that the current ROI 2023 squad is at least a better squad on paper than NI was in 2016.

And although Will Grigg was "on fire" I don't think he even started much!

--

Looking at the Martin O'Neill ROI team from 2016 to see how much 'better' it was to both NI 2016 and ROi 2023, should be interesting just as an overview

English Premier League - Coleman, Clark, O'Shea, Whelan, McCarthy, Hoolahan, Long, Walters, Ward, Given, Brady, Randolph, (12)

English Championship - Westwood, Keogh, McGeady, Duffy, Hendrick, Meyler, Murphy, Christie, Quinn (9)

MLS - R. Keane

Overall midtable to lower type English PL, to higher English Championship I would say?

--

So I would argue that it is more how the players are structured moulded and managed. Rather than the players themselves. A manager can make a big difference to a side.

--

Also it has to be remember that the chances of qualifying have been expaneded for tournaments more chances to qualify for tournaments in the history of the game of football.

--

O'Shea (has broke into Burnley's starting 11), Coleman (regular when fit) Egan (regular) Doherty (not regular), Ogbene ( has broke into the Luton team), Cullen (regular), Ferguson (regular), Obafemi (not regular/injured), Kelleher (not regular), Collins (in more than out of the starting 11),

Don't forget with the money and the worldwide scouting involved with the Premier League, it's harder than ever to breakthrough. Players who were at lower Premier League teams in the past, would be in championship teams now.

With players like Bazunu, Ebolese, Scales, Knight, Smallbone, Idah, Moran, Armstrong and players like that playing in decent teams and most of them young with lots of room for improvement, we actually aren't too badly off. It's not all doom and gloom.

Look at Greece, they don't have a better squad than us, their manager is paid about the same as ours and they have this group a real good go. A decent manager and we'd be the same. Our last manager had us competing with a worse squad than we currently have.

We've collapsed under the current manager but a good Nations league campaign with a competent manager and we can get second seeds for the World Cup draw. The next appointment is vital. Kenny was Delaney's last appointment. Time for a new, exciting and optimistic era to begin.

Agree on Doherty, you can see he has the skill but he is lazy for Ireland, he never runs with the ball, always walks with it or stands still and mostly plays very short passes.

It not the point whether Doherty is a good player he plays regulary in the EPL so obviously someone does. Not only that Atletico saw fit to loan him as cover, how many Irish Internationals have played in La Liga?

Plus look at the Wales team and Scotland.Would they be considered miles better then the Irish side?

My point is I believe it is less to do with the players and more the manager. As there is a certain level of quality of player there that SHOULD be enough to qualify for tournaments or at least come close to it. I mean the organisers trying to make it easier to qualify for tournaments after all. I know there is all the historical FAI stuff, lack of LOI support from fans, no LOI academies etc. But Ireland always has alright players, championship English level mostly with a few EPL here and there.

What is here and now there should be enough for a decent manager to work with. The only problem is that because of Kenny (a poor manager) Ireland's seeding will take a hammering. Making it more of a challenge for the next fella.

Some of the comments about Kenny seem to be way out of whack. It almost seems personal.

Who would you get in to replace him? What system suits the current squad?

I haven’t seen any of the critics answer those questions yet.

Rather than hurl abuse let’s turn it into a constructive chat.

I like Roy. But i wouldnt touch him for management. Hes a liability in the dugout and i think it would turn toxic fast.

Carsley should be aporoached first. At least ask the guy the question.

Kenny is the worst manager we've had in over 40 years. His reign has been horrendous. Previous managers received huge abuse despite doing far better jobs than Kenny. He's got off really lightly, I see very little abuse of him. People are more angry with the FAI, the media and some supporters for getting him a new contract when he was clearly way out of his depth.

Pulling the piss out of his speech issues isn't grounds for criticism. There's enough there in the performances and results without resorting to childish school yard piss taking.