"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

Piskin · 17-10-2023 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252136#Comment_121252136

Sad again..lol

17-10-2023 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251983#Comment_121251983

GAA is gone funny too I knew a lad, a radical thinker, he said that a team's wides should be counted as points in the later end of the hurling championship. He has a point, he has a point, pardon the pun. This fella thinks so far out of the box he's nearly in outer space.. Legend.

17-10-2023 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252144#Comment_121252144

Are you sad, maybe try and do something about it. Good luck now!

Piskin · 17-10-2023 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252155#Comment_121252155

I am by getting pleasure out of your posts 😎

17-10-2023 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252160#Comment_121252160

I'm glad I helped. Goodbye, again!

Piskin · 17-10-2023 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252168#Comment_121252168

least you could do I guess

17-10-2023 10:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252177#Comment_121252177

You're dying to keep the oul chat going😊Are you flirting with me Ms. Piskin?

Piskin · 17-10-2023 10:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252193#Comment_121252193

Leave your mother out of this.. chat with your teddy bear.

17-10-2023 10:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252204#Comment_121252204

I don't get that joke. But I'm going to say no to you now for insulting my mammy.

Piskin · 17-10-2023 10:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252210#Comment_121252210

Suck you thumb and you will be alright

awec · 17-10-2023 10:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250990#Comment_121250990

We lost but we left everything on the pitch

Presumably your implication by this particular sentence is that Ireland did everything in their power to win that game, then this just is not true. Anyone who has watched Ireland the past few years would know this is absolutely not true.

Are you forgetting that we played for 20 minutes against 14 men? Are you forgetting that we conceded an incredibly soft try directly off a line out? Are you forgetting that we missed an absolute sitter of a penalty right in front of the posts? Are you forgetting that we gifted them 3 points at a key moment due to a moment of stupidity? Are you forgetting that we simply dropped the ball from a restart after being held up?

20 minutes against 14 men in that sort of game is an absolute gift. This had nothing to do with "NZ being better".

There was nothing special about that line out move they used, it was incredibly basic. Our defense totally ballsed it up. This had nothing to do with "NZ being better".

NZ "being better" had absolutely nothing to do with Sexton missing that kick.

NZ "being better" had nothing to do with Murray grabbing Barrett.

NZ "being better" didn't make Caelan Doris drop that ball.

Surely, when you typed "we left everything on the pitch" and then followed it up with "we just didn't click" you must realise that what you're saying makes no real sense.

AbusesToilets · 17-10-2023 10:26pm

I think it is a failure of coaching at Leinster and Ireland that nothing has been done to fix Porter's poor technique. He's had the same issue since switching to LH. Shouldn't be acceptable for a top level player.

Green Peter · 17-10-2023 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252266#Comment_121252266

What do you want, their heads on a plate, never to play for Ireland again, a public apology, a refund of their expenses, a personal apology. A return of all their medals from the last 4 years. Get over it.

awec · 17-10-2023 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252337#Comment_121252337

I obviously want none of these things. I am not over it yet, maybe you find these things very easy to get over, I am fairly devastated at the outcome of the weekend. What a huge opportunity that we didn't do our very best to take. If that doesn't bother you then I don't know what to say.

I am just tired of reading inane stuff like "that's just sport" on here from posters who are acting like what happened at the weekend was not really that big a deal. Pretending like it's all grand. Talking about series wins as if that in any way takes the edge off the disappointment, as if the two things are in any way comparable.

There are legitimate criticisms that can be directed at Ireland on Saturday night. For whatever reason, some posters, yourself included, refuse to accept that and are instead trying to convince everyone that Ireland could have done nothing more, that we gave it absolutely everything we had. I guess it's because you're uncomfortable having to say something critical about the team, or about certain players, I get that, but it's a discussion forum, and we're here to discuss, and this place would be fairly mind numbing if we just had page after page of robotic, emotionless stuff like "that's sport" or "we just move on".

I am very frustrated with some of the very, very basic mistakes Ireland made. Some of these were absolutely huge moments. This Ireland team are better than that, and I think the reason this exit will hurt more than the rest is that they know and we know they are better than what they produced on Saturday night. The 2023 RWC for Ireland will always be a huge what-if, I think we'll be talking about it for quite some time, it'll probably eclipse the disappointment of 91.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252266#Comment_121252266

Unless this ‘best game’ thing is on a switch and they didn’t flick it then the only conclusion you can come to is they were not ready to win a QF.

I prefer to balance the good with the bad and conclude that while they were ready it was not to be.

And it was clear they made mistakes, clear that NZ went 13 points ahead but it was also clear that they showed resilience and hard work to make up for that and but for an arm would have put it up to NZ to come at them and win it. Even when that failed they put a phase of play together that almost, but for the luck of a ref decision, have paid dividends.

They left all they had on the day out there. There is no magic switch that provides the best game. You have to keep playing what’s in front of you.

You think you are frustrated/disappointed ? How do you think they felt as time ran out or after?

They did all they could IMO without the benefit of hindsight or the time and comfort we have.

Piskin · 17-10-2023 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252337#Comment_121252337

No..the powers that be and the players need to be aware of those flaws and rectify them otherwise it's going to be the same in every WC. We played with our hearts no doubt on saturday but most certainly not our heads. Isn't that the same old story...

17-10-2023 10:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252337#Comment_121252337

Exactly. What do these people want, some sort of punishment for a team that technically could have been better but tried their very best on the night.

We all know Andy and management will dissect everything and strive to learn and improve.

I find a disconnect between the sports anorak, and I use this term without insult, and the people on the ground like Farrell, his management and players, who have to deal with the day to day management of performance.

Green Peter · 17-10-2023 10:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252370#Comment_121252370

When you get a time machine i'll go back with you to Paris at 7.45pm and we will chat with Farrell and the team, we will tell Johnny to kick the penalty a bit more to the right, watch for a sneaky kick over the top, Doris to keep a better eye on the ball and porter that the ref might be a bit fussy. While we are there get the lotto numbers and we will have a lot less to worry about. I just hope there are no time travelling new Zealanders there as well because I'm sure they will be sorting a few issues out as well

awec · 17-10-2023 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252381#Comment_121252381

We were ready to win a QF. That is exactly why it's so frustrating. This was nothing like the previous exits.

Literally every single thing was right in this RWC. We were in form, on a 17 game win streak. We had no real injuries (though I question if Hansen was really fit). We had a very good panel. We showed both dominant, flashy performances (Scotland) and performances where we could really dig deep and get the job done (South Africa).

We were 100% ready.

I believe, had Ireland played to the best of their ability, they'd have won that game. I am not saying we'd definitely have won, but I believe that this Ireland team at our best beat New Zealand at their best.

I am frustrated we didn't play our best, I am frustrated at some of the basic errors. These errors were unfortunately very costly.

phog · 17-10-2023 11:09pm

In honour of the OP

17-10-2023 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252456#Comment_121252456

The oul Eiffel Tower is overrated😉

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252416#Comment_121252416

Bewildered here.

Obviously playing to our best is shorthand for ‘winning’ for you.

For me, even if we win there are mistakes, misses, etc etc.

We didn’t win, for you that is not playing to our best. For me , because we didn’t choke or freeze we played the best we could on the day.

I care, I’n disappointed and frustrated, just like you. But I know these things aren’t on a switch and I respect the effort the team put in. I would not demean them by calling them chokers because teams with nothing to do with them also came up short.

awec · 17-10-2023 11:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252507#Comment_121252507

Obviously playing to our best is shorthand for ‘winning’ for you.

Er, no. I said I believe if we had played to our best we would win, but we could still have lost. Losing after giving it your absolute best is a different situation to what happened on Saturday.

We didn’t win, for you that is not playing to our best.

No again. I have never said that we didn't play our best because we didn't win. I have enumerated basic, uncharacteristic mistakes that show why we were not at our best, and these errors contributed to us not winning.

If we had avoided these basic, uncharacteristic errors we would probably have won that game. Not guaranteed, but probably.

I would not demean them by calling them chokers because teams with nothing to do with them also came up short.

I didn't call them chokers. Or bottlers. However, we did start slow, and we did make basic errors.

Chokers or bottlers is far too strong a term for what happened, however it does seem likely that we were affected by the occasion. This Ireland team have done more than enough to show that there is no real skill gap between them and the All Blacks. The difference in this game was mentality, come 9pm on Saturday night New Zealand were more mentally ready to do the job that needed to be done than we were.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2023 11:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252567#Comment_121252567

All QF’s were affected by the occasion. There is nothing unusual in that. It produced as much good as it did bad play for us. Probably more good play if truth be known.

I don’t know how to produce this best play though unless it’s on a switch.

We have played games which won ugly and we have lost games were we played well. Saturday was a day with some ugly and some good but we lost.

Its not a curse or a jinx because it happened in a QF it can happen in any game.

noc1980 · 18-10-2023 12:05am

We've become so conditioned to getting blown away in quarter finals that we consider this 4pt loss a success of sorts. The reality is this was a bang average All Black team that only back in August beat the worst Australia side ever by just 3 points. The next 2 good sides they played they lost to both, destroyed by South Africa and outclassed by France.

They were there for the taking. If we delivered a 9 out of 10 performance and lost to the better team you could stomach it but it was a 6 out of 10 at best. Dreadful lineout, passive at the breakdown, missed gimme kicks, poor decision making, lack of composure at critical moments... AND we still should have won. THAT's what it makes it a bottle job, we were nowhere near our best. If we performed like we did in the 17 games leading up to this one we'd be in a semi final.

It's not an attack on the players to call it what it is, I'm certain they know themselves that they underperformed and most will be at least entertaining the idea that the occasion got to them.

TRC10 · 18-10-2023 2:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251194#Comment_121251194

You've hit the nail on the head there. Too bad so many people want to bury their head in the sand. It's the same every time Leinster choke. "Small margins" "bounce of a ball" etc. Nobody wants to actually acknowledge that they failed to perform.

ulsteru20s · 18-10-2023 3:54am

There are levels to ‘not performing’ imo. I don’t think we played our best but it would also have been enough to beat NZ except at their very best which they hit for one game.

From that POV its hard to criticize. At the same time tho, its fine after any loss to dissect what went wrong.

Podge_irl · 18-10-2023 8:53am

Kelleher's held up was a poor decision badly executed.

McCarthy's clearout on Barrett was a dreadful attempt from a bench player who should have been fresher.

These are two, unfortunately key points that were pretty good examples of Ireland making the kind of mistakes we normally don't make.

Tombo2001 · 18-10-2023 8:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252810#Comment_121252810

Arguably we didnt play any worse against NZ than against South Africa three weeks previously. The single biggest diff in my view was Mack Hansen not being fully fit, and James Ryan. Not anything any of the players did wrong per se.

FrancieBrady · 18-10-2023 9:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252792#Comment_121252792

But they did perform.

That is a verifiable fact.

There are people here denying they had a sense of entitlement or who thought we only had to turn up. It may not have been expressed outright but it's all over posts.

They ignore that in games that we won there was a balance between the good and the bad, always variable.

'Playing our best' isn't some definable level and it is massively affected by what the result is.

I asked the question: what would we be saying today if that arm had not been there and we went on to win?

We would be saying this team is so good it can win ugly...we said it very recently when we struggled for a time against Samoa.

We wouldn't be focusing on the bad points of our performance, we'd be focussing on all the good things we did, our resilience would be triumphed. Aki would be a genius and Sexton would sit a top the pile because he masterminded the kicks and field position to get the pivotal lineouts etc etc etc.

Go review the aftermath of games we won ugly in to see that.

The fact is a balanced review of that game shows that we were a mixture of good and bad things, we were in a QF which was just as important for the opposition and for a host of reasons we didn't win a 50/50 match with high stakes.

There was no entitlement, we should only have won a game like that if we actually went out and won it. We didn't, again for a host of reasons.

Actual good teams don't throw the toys out, or throw the baby out with the bathwater. They go away, assess what happened, figure out what to do about the flaws and work to fix it.

Then like thousands of teams before them amid the disappointment and the hurt they keep going and try again.

Why? Because that's sport, the very essence of it, in fact.

"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

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