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Has President Higgins overstepped the mark?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,302 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    So Ireland 'stands alone' but also Ireland is part of the 'Brussels cabal'.

    All your words.

    An incoherent rant. Nothing more.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Stirred up the crazies and frightened folk with his nutbag assumptions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    No. The Brussels cabal is unlawful. Ireland stands alone - Ireland free from the centre to the sea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,302 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The EU is 'unlawful'. Ireland is 'free'. Also, Ireland part of 'Brussels cabal'.

    All of this exists in your imagination alone.

    This is a fantasy. You aren't discussing the political realities of 2023 but some alternative future you've played out in your head from 1916.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    NATO has no use for a country with a defence capability equal to the Faroe Islands, I personally don’t think we should join NATO but we absolutely should ramp up defence spending, the two are being conflated dishonestly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    They were talking about primary radar,which is a necessary basic facility.

    What we could afford in warships and fighters would be of no earthly use to anyone. Joining NATO is a fanciful notion that only exists in the head of her man in the Big House, probably too much Champagne.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Miggeldy is the kind of frivolous career intellectual who actually believes his kind of high minded flowery rhetoric is capable of solving international acts of aggression, like I said , a life of frivolousness



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    We have a reasonable number of ships (or will have) but don't have the crews. As for fighters yes a few would be of little use in most circumstances but they would allow us to at least oversea our waters and the airspace associated. It would be a start and we have to start somewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    unfortunately we live in an age where we can see in almost real time the barbarity and outright cruelty that a supposedly civilised legitimate country ( not a terrorist organization) is inflicting on another and only a thousand miles away from us. Of course that is going to have an effect on us. How can Michael D expect us to just ignore that and carry on as if nothing has changed. It has changed and we didn’t change but it has changed. He has no right to shut down legitimate concern about our security situation. And this talk of losing respect of African countries Jesus h Christ I never heard such scutter. Most of them don’t even know we exist and mix us up with Iceland ffs or think we are still part of Britain. What benefit is it to our security of people living in Ireland whether African countries think we are sound or not. We are living in Disneyland when it comes to global geopolitics. This is Mickey Mouse stuff the party is over. As I said the world has changed. We didn’t cause it or want it and would damn well prefer if it hadn’t. But it has . Ask a Central European or Baltic or Ukranian person. There are people being bombed in schools , hospitals and apartment blocks and children being stolen and soldiers being tortured and castrated all because of their geographical location and non alignment as we speak. Forgive us for being a little bit concerned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,302 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Cares more about the 'respect' of countries in Africa who couldnt find us on a map.

    But sneers at our EU partners Latvia and Lithuania who faced an existential threat from Russia. These are vulnerable small liberal democracies you would think Irish people would recognise that.

    But no he obviously doesnt care if they are under Russian subjugation or not.

    Morally bankrupt champagne socialist who would sell out Irish interests in a second if he thought he would get a mention in a speech at the UN or the New York Times.

    An apologist for tyranny.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,628 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I see Michael D is getting praise all round for taking Van Der Leyen to task over her comments about Israel-Gaza. Leo and Michael have also repeated what the president was brave enough to say straight away. She should consult with other leaders before shooting her mouth off on behalf of all EU states and giving Israel carte blanche to break international law.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Has he always spoken like he's giving the sermon on the mount or does he reserve it for special occasions?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Don't mind how he spoke just listen to his words.

    Well chosen IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    We are only if use to eastern European countries as a means of income and benefits that stand well above their countries means.

    African countries are imo mostly unaware of Ireland or where it is or its sovereignty for that matter.

    President Higgins will say what he has to say. It's an opinion. Even presidents are allowed one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Like his support for Castro.

    Not the president's job to have opinions,for very obvious reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,628 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    That is manifestly incorrect re the president's job. If you want an obedient FF/FG lapdog, elect one. Or change the constitution. You point/opinion has been disproved on many threads.

    Anything to say on Higgins condemnation of Van Der Leyen speaking on behalf of us and suggesting Israel can ignore international law?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Don't agree with a fair few of Michael D's statements but I'm inclined to say most of the Irish public would agree with his Israel comments and largely in line with the state policy.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Not the poster, but may as well comment!

    I thought the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste (and I suppose the Dáil to an extent) ran foreign policy + relations with the EU institutions. IMO the first 2 should be left to pipe up, and it should not really be coming from MDH.

    Also I would like a quote there, I am amazed if von der Leyen edit: suggested they could "ignore International Law". I believe she went on somewhat of a solo run, and also didn't say anything about Israeli duties, and just sympathised with them + said they could defend themselves (so was one sided), which is the problem critics had with it.

    Michael D seems to be a 3rd executive leader at times in his comments rather than a figure head now as he regularly wades into sensitive stuff and tells everyone what the "Irish People" want, and what they think etc.

    2nd time in a few months he laid into the EU too (other one was for "militarisation" I think), didn't think I was voting for a (sort of) Eurosceptic President.

    At least I didn't believe our President may be important to our relations with the EU and Irish foreign policy in general when I voted, silly me I suppose, will have to be more careful!

    edit: To add should say I don't want a govt. lapdog, it is good he voices opinions [in tradition I think kind of started by his 2 female predecessors] it's just more recently it has been stuff like this, that seems to me like entering directly into the day to day policy and politcs + hot button issues, but I admit that could be subjective as to where any "line" is.

    Post edited by fly_agaric on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Amazing how ignorant people are in relation to the role of the presidential office and the parameters of said office

    higgins ( yet again) has shown contempt for the office, he’s a disgrace



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He's criticising UVDL for speaking on behalf of the Irish people. Who gave him the right to speak on behalf of me?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,938 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    UVDL actually does not have any right to speak on behalf of EU countries on foreign affairs unless collectively agreed.

    She did exceed her authority. Higgins is right on that but he has also tested the limits of his own office.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And he's wrong Mr Frog. He has no right to speak on behalf of me, you, or anyone else, so he should just shut his cake hole.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭Packrat


    The majority who voted for him perhaps?

    I don't remember UVL standing for election here so she definitely doesn't.

    He's 100% right.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    He's supposed to be an apolitical figure, that is what the role of president is.He really should have been told by the government to shut up a long time ago.His solo run in praise of Fidel Castro after his death for example was quite embarrassing where his opinions on Castro were clearly not aligned with anyone outside of a very tiny minority of the Irish people.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Yawn.. this again. Read the constitution please and then come back and apologize.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    What he said is beside the point. He has no right to comment on political matters without the approval of the Government. Says so in the big book of rules,he knows it.

    Suppose he'd agreed with Van Der Leyen? You see the difficulty with allowing a president to say anything he or she likes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    The little fella knows his tenure in the Àrus is almost done.

    He’s having a few kicks before he leaves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    The president acts as a representative of the Irish state and guardian of the constitution

    I think he represented us well, and I stand behind him.

    The majority of Irish people believe what Israel and Hamas are doing is wrong and that a long term agreement must be hammered out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Will be great to see the back of the original champagne socialist, he has knowingly overstepped the mark on numerous occasions.

    He and his wife have been an embarrassing spectacle for many years.

    After the sh1tshow of MDH’s tenure, lefties can’t complain if a future right wing opinionated President shoots his or her mouth off on various matters of their own choosing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,531 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    People would be pissed off with a president who said nothing and pissed off if he or she expressed an opinion. There's no pleasing everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Lefties can't complain about a right wing president.

    That's how it is in countries with right wing presidents.

    A warning not to elect right wing politicians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    I’m talking about a future Irish President with right wing opinions -

    because of MDH inability over the years to simply SHUT UP, the embarrassing cliched rubbish he spouts and then almost dares the government to chastise him

    - you can be sure future presidents have taken note and will follow the awful example Higgins has set.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,628 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The big book of rules? The constitution you mean? Wrong again but I think you know that. This has been played out many times already including in this thread yet you refuse to accept it. You have been taken in by a FF/FG mistruth.

    While there are significant restrictions on what the President can do, the Constitution places few limitations on what they might say.

    Just what can the President of Ireland actually say and do? (rte.ie)

    Undoubtedly, then, there are significant restrictions on what the President can do. At the same time, and contrary to popular opinion, the Constitution places very few restrictions on what the President might say. It is a common feature of the Irish political scene for Presidents to be criticised for allegedly stepping outside their constitutional domain almost every time they express an opinion that touches on some aspect of economic or social policy. However, the only formal restrictions are in Article 13.7; namely, where the President makes a formal address to either the Oireachtas or the Nation on a matter of national importance, the address must first be approved by the Government.

    The president was speaking at the World Food Forum in Rome.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    He is the democratically elected Head of State.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The Irish public reelected him, clearly the vast majority are fine with how he represents the country.

    Post edited by eightieschewbaccy on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Not at all. Ask ppl - most cannot stand him and wish he was finished and retired to the nursing home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    I agree with his sentiments on UVDL, most people probably do, but I guess the question here is did he overstep the mark as President.

    These comments should be coming from our Taoiseach or Foreign Affairs Minister. You could say that they have "understepped" the mark. Leo only seems to have mentioned it in answering to an opposition TD's questions.

    So I think in the absence of leadership from the government, perhaps Michael D was right to speak out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    He was reelected comfortably so the randomers that you supposedly meet are largely unrepresentative of the Irish public. Cause when it came to the vote, most people were happy to see him serve another seven years. And given the average Irish person's position on Palestine, I'm reasonably confident that most are in agreement with the stance he took.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Most people who voted. A fairly tiny minority of the population.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Both Higgins and UVDL are guilty of exactly the same over step yet the irony appears lost on Higgins



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    It doesn’t matter if 99% of the population voted for him, the office has restrictions along with privileges and powers , it is separate from the Oireachtas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And? If you have the right to vote and don't use that right, that's on you. If you didn't vote and are complaining about our representatives, maybe they might consider voting next time.... 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,857 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    I wonder were people actuallly unhappy with the pre-Mary Robinson presidents who kept their heads down, signed the bills, cut the ribbons and, in the words of Garret Fitzgerald, "said only anodyne things". To me good presidents are like good goalkeepers, the less you notice them the better they are doing their job...



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,443 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Well the next time there is a presidential election get out from behind the keyboard and work hard to elect someone that does speak for you. In the meantime he does speak on behalf of the country and you will just have to lump it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You clearly don't like MDH but he has done nothing wrong.

    I hope we don't elect a right wing president and your theory won't be tested.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Talk to the general public and see what reaction you get when you mention MDH to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And you do this in every single thread, claiming to have a unique insight into public feeling that is entirely unverifiable. Meanwhile he got reelected and people were well aware of who they were reelecting. So I'd say that trumps your public surveys. It's also pretty in line with state policy on Palestine. Varadkar said similar yesterday and he absolutely wouldn't be saying it if he didn't think it aligned with the public view.




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What does this even mean?

    He does represent everyone, however some people just don't agree with him. There is literally not a single topic in existent that every Irish person agrees on. The Taoiseach most certainly represents the people of Ireland also, but some would happily see him hung, drawn and quartered.

    Anyway, I think he is on far shakier ground with this commentary than he was on the neutrality discussion given that International Relations are very explicitly defined as the affairs of the Government in the Constitution. But he is breaking protocols and convention rather than laws. Not convinced its a great precedent to be setting though



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