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Go Safe van parked on side of motorway where the sign says Garda Cars Only

  • 18-10-2023 4:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭


    So this is the second time I have seen this Go Safe van parked in exactly the same spot where it says Garda Cars Only. So this time I decided to stop and take a clear picture of the van with the sign saying Garda Cars only. So my question is who do I bring the picture to. Is it the police , is it the NRA or is it GoSafe themselves. Certainly GoSafe are not the Garda.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,042 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    You stopped on the hard shoulder of a motorway just to take a photo? Are you aware of the stupidity of that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,300 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    GoSafe are operating on behalf of the Gardai, they are authorized to park in those places.


    The best place to stick your picture is up on your fridge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,251 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    This should be good 😆😆

    Fight the good fight, my brother.

    This is water. Inspiring speech by David Foster Wallace https://youtu.be/DCbGM4mqEVw?si=GS5uDvegp6Er1EOG



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    You should be fined for stopping on a motorway for a start. According the the Garda website they "are using a service provider ‘GoSafe’ to operate them on its behalf." As such they can operate anywhere the Gardaí instruct them or permit them to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    Thanks 😂. It's one thing to be working on behalf of the Garda and another when it states Garda Only on a sign by the side of the motorway. Just my take,😀. I hate being fcuked



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,123 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Sure and of course all signs are legally binding down to the exact wording 🙄



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭delly


    Were you able to tell if the van operator had his GoSafe hat on?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,432 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    🤣🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭harmless


    Report it to traffic watch(0818 205 805) be sure to let them know of the photographic evidence you have,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    I enjoyed that comment hugely. Go delly😂. Best comment by far on this thread



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    Wish I knew how to attach a picture on boards but it continues to confound me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Highly recommend heading to the nearest police station with that, not much the PSNI can do but they could probably do with the laugh.

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,401 ✭✭✭markpb


    Even assuming you are right and they can’t park there, do you think their mistake or law breaking would nullify any speeding tickets they issued at that time?

    I don’t think those signs have any legal bearing anyway. Maybe they’re mentioned in the Road Traffic Acts somewhere but the lack of an Irish translation suggests they’re only advisory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    In retrospect I have to agree with you Witcher. That was completely stupid of me. Of course I had pulled in way off the road and put hazards on but I still take your point.

    I could try and justify my actions based on the fact that the sign clearly stated Garda Only plus the fact that having a GoSafe van on a motorway is such a dangerous thing. And the reason I say that is motorists by nature slam on their brakes. And there is good reason for this. The motorist is watching the road rather than the exact value on their speedometer. So it's just a natural thing to do. But it causes a dangerous situation for car drivers who are travelling behind and have not witnessed the situation.

    It's funny but on the same journey I witnessed a situation where a driver on the inside lane was driving very slowly. Behind it came a truck carrying lumber. I was in the outside lane and had to brake and let the truck into the outside lane in front of me because he/she couldn't stop in time.

    All that aside I accept the lack of wisdom of my actions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,933 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Breaking the speed limit isn't such a natural thing to do.

    Use your speed limiter or build a decent margin of error into your approach.

    You're the reason we need speed vans on motorways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    interesting viewpoint. people generally drive to in and abouts the speed limit. much of the problem is some folks not driving in concertina. and GoSafe vans impact that concertina effect

    Post edited by ElisaAtWar on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    People impact that concertina effect, the GoSafe can is just doing a job and not responsible for the actions of idiots! If people actually drove the way they were supposed to, there would be no need for these vans. Its not that difficult to drive and glance at your speed every now and again anyway. The whole slamming on the brakes when a speed camera is spotted drives me mad. Most of the time on motorways, people are generally under the limit. Same with the collective refusal of drivers to overtake a Garda vehicle on the motorway when they are clearly driving under the speed limit! Drive on and observe the rules. Nothing to fear then.

    Here, I shall end my rant. :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,300 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Correct, those signs have no legal standing.

    Just like the "Garda Only Parking" outside Garda stations.

    That's why they had to put down double yellow lines with them as well.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It's funny but on the same journey I witnessed a situation where a driver on the inside lane was driving very slowly. Behind it came a truck carrying lumber. I was in the outside lane and had to brake and let the truck into the outside lane in front of me because he/she couldn't stop in time

    How could the truck driver not stop in time or were his brakes shot? What you've described is either an unroadworthy truck being driven at speed on a motorway or a person dangerously driving the truck yet you're blaming other traffic (hint: the slower car did not appear out of nowhere!)? Still, you're the kind of dangerous driver who reckons it's ok to stop on motorways to take pictures so we shouldn't expect much from you!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,622 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Many cars and satnavs can be set to beep at pre-set points, e.g. 49, 59, 99, 119 km/h. If more people did this, there would be no need to slam on.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭rob w


    Well obviously you would only have to slam on every time it beeps! 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,185 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    assuming you are right and they can’t park there, do you think their mistake or law breaking would nullify any speeding tickets they issued at that time?


    Yes it would. I am not saying that the van does not have permission to park where it was - based on the details given it would. But hypothetically, if it did park somewhere that it did not have permission or right to park, then the ticket would be rescinded once you could show it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,300 ✭✭✭mikeecho




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    Who owns gosafe? It should be made very transparent if they are acting on behalf of gardai. I don't know why they don't just put speed cameras on motorways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,123 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    What do you mean "more transparent"? There's full transparency around the fact that they're contracted by An Garda Síochána.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,165 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    This is a complex and somewhat nuanced area. Evidence obtained in "deliberate and conscious breach" of someone's constitutional rights is not admissible in court against that person, except in very exceptional circumstances. So, the guards detain you in circumstances where they have no power of arrest; they beat the living snot out of you; they interrogate you brutally; you make admissions that are, um, contrary to your own interest. Those admissions cannot be given in evidence against you.

    But that's clearly not this case. Here, the suggested illegality - parking in a place where they are not permitted to park - is not a breach of anyone's constitutional rights. Where evidence is gathered in a way that involves illegality but no breach of constitutional rights, it's up to the judge at the trial to decide whether to admit it, having regard to all the surrounding circumstances — whether the breach of law was inadvertant; whether it was minor or more significant; whether it bears on the nature or quality of the evidence gathered (if they had parked just down the road where parking was lawful, would the evidence they gathered have been any different?); everything that might be relevant.

    I'm inclined to think that where the illegality complained of is a violation of parking regulations, there's a good chance that evidence would be admitted. But we can't be sure without an actual case with actual facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 899 ✭✭✭tommythecat


    Pretty sure the garda only sign is there so that no member of the public will decide that its a great place to pull in for a break.

    4kwp South East facing PV System. 5.3kwh Weco battery. South Dublin City.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,827 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    I know some "Go Safe" locations are dubious, esp when they blocking the pavement, or sight lines for entrances., driveways, etc. but a spot clearly marked "Garda Only" would not be one of these.


    I assume you comment "speed cameras on motorways" is a reference to fixed speed camera. they never really go into them here for some reason, there were a few, but they all disappeared around the same time as the "Go Safe" contract came into force for some reason.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,093 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    WTF: from above: I put hazards on 

    you were the hazard!

    Anyway the clue is in your call sign:

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,185 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    If you want to get technical as an aside (and not that relevant for the OP), then no. JC did revert away from the strict application in Kenny and back closer to O'Brien but it also extended the criteria to the case where superiors knew but subordinates did not. So the ignorance of the individual van operator is no longer an excuse if their superiors knew it was.

    Once the judge has ascertained that the Constitutional right has been broken, they do not have discretion to allow it. Shaw was back in the 80's and involved competing Constitutional rights. They do retain discretion for other breaches such as breaches of the custody regulations or judges rules.


    Slightly more relevant for the OP, Gardai can tag you anywhere. The vans cannot. For example, there has to be a camera warning sign for the vans to be in an area to tag you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭kirving


    Isle of Man based....

    My issue with awarding such contracts to GoSafe is that there is no evidence that they are effective in reducing road deaths.

    When you look at collision stats released by the RSA where they attribute "speed" as a factor, they are not just talking about "braking the speed limit" as you would expect.

    They are also including "inappropriate speed" ie: under the limit.

    Speed cameras do nothing to solve this, and in some respects the one dimensional messaging about speed limits enforces the belief that 79km/h = save, but 81km/h = unsafe.

    I'd love to know how many serious and fatal collisions actually occur below the speed limit, as we are throwing taxpayer money at a private company hand over fist, when we would see a far better return in my opinion, by investing in driver training.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,165 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Where's the breach of constitutional right here?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    The conversation is interesting. I did just stop on a hard shoulder for, at the time, I felt was a justified reason.

    Now it has been clearly pointed out to me that I was in the wrong. But at that moment in time I was so frustrated with these vans which hide on corners that they know could potentially catch a speeding vehicle as compared to the reason for these vans which was to monitor dangerous roads.

    And this was the basis for my actions. It was not about putting others at risk but simply to say no. I won't have myself or others targeted by a solution that is more money focused than safety focused.

    And I do appreciate how folks have called out my mistake but it was with the best of intentions



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It was not about putting others at risk but simply to say no. I won't have myself or others targeted by a solution that is more money focused than safety focused.

    What? The only drivers it targets are those breaking the law and there is an easy method to ensure that you don't appear on their radar (excuse the form of pun)!

    As for it being money focused, the operators don't get a commission. If it was money focused then the fine would be a thousand euro rather than the current amount.

    Still, your concern for it not being safety focused is hard to believe given that you pulled over on a motorway to take photos 🙄



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,185 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I never said there was. You brought it up. I said it was not that relevant to the OP.

    GoSafe vans are not Gardai. Certain roles are delegated to them. I would need to look at what instrument delegates those powers. It might be more an administrative law issue. I don't have time to bother looking into it now. But as I said, and I said it as it might be something you are familiar with, they can only be placed in certain areas that are signposted. The same as a fixed camera can be. The Gardai can tag you wherever but the other methods can't. So that should give an indication that their powers are indeed limited.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,827 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    The "Go Safe" operators are wearing incorrect hats when they take the pictures of drivers who are invoking their constitutional rights in breaching unconsitutional restrictions on their rights to excessive speed on sovereign highways and byways

    .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,300 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    No legislation stating that signs need to be in place for GoSafe vans.

    In face they have removed many of them, and not erected new ones on the newly designated zones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    Since you are familiar with what the legislation does not state, maybe you can provide us all with what the legislation does state?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    As said GoSafe operators are more likely to cause an accident than stop an accident. Speed cameras that are signposted and average speed areas that are signposted are perfectly good. But coming around a corner, seeing a speed van and naturally slamming on your brakes no matter what speed you are doing is simply dangerous. As I said drivers focus on the road in front of them and do not constantly monitor their exact speed which if they did would be a highly dangerous practice



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    Who owns gosafe? Does that person have any family or business connections to high level gardai or politicians? Are all details of the contract in the public domain? Do they make more money the more people they catch, or is it a flat fee? What equipment are they using and who controls it and has direct access to it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,532 ✭✭✭JohnC.




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Any incident as you have described is purely down to the driver and not someone parked along the side of a road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    Yes it is down to the driver but the idea of road safety is really to follow the statistics and instincts of all drivers. I don't know what the statistics say exactly but definitely I would say the reaction of a lot of drivers upon seeing a speed trap is to break.

    All the more reason for hidden cameras on motorways I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭JVince


    All that information is easily found.


    Btw, The equipment records the speed and details of every vehicle that passes.

    An image file is sent to Thurles Garda station and a roads policing officer reviews all vehicles registered as going over the prescribed limit and decides if a fine is warranted.

    Go safe have no input into it. They simply provide the images



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    That reads like you are one very poor driver to be honest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    That's fine then regarding who controls the data.

    Basically this company is acting like a temporary speed camera that needs a van and a person to sit in it, when alternatively they could install permanent hidden cameras.

    I guess it depends on the cost of the service vs the cost of having permanent cameras installed and operating. My guess is they'd rather pay more in the long term than take a short term hit for long term gains.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 527 ✭✭✭dickdasr1234




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 527 ✭✭✭dickdasr1234


    "As said GoSafe operators are more likely to cause an accident than stop an accident"

    There truly is no limit to people's stupidity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭JVince


    Permanent cameras don't work as a motorist will know it is there.


    And yes, the person in the van sits back and simply is there to ensure the equipment is running.

    They are permitted to do other things whilst monitoring the equipment, including reading books, watching videos, having a cup of coffee etc.



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