Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

This is deplorable

the same channel that shat on 9/11 families and Americans who didn’t buy the WMD line and beat the war drum.

do ppl actually believe hundreds of concert goers were butchered by hamas/isis? i think we know the answer to that...

About half the current population of Gaza are under 18. Add all of the adults who were 17 or younger in 2006 that are still alive and you'll have more than half.

I dont think anyone agrees with restricting the basic essentials to Gaza. I certainly dont. I can see why they are doing it, but I don't agree with it and I would wager most people on any side would agree. Actions can be both logical and abhorrent at the same time. That's what Israel is doing.

However, what Israel is doing right now in light of the current conflict, isn't representative of what they've been doing since 1948, even if the current situation is familiar. That'll have some people up in arms, but I mean that in terms of claims of "genocide" and some sort of grand plan to reduce the Palestinian population.

They're on a war footing right now after the attacks a fortnight ago. You can debate if that's right or wrong. I certainly am not going to argue that Israel is right, but reality is reality.

But claims they are "genociding" Gaza are ridiculously far-fetched. As I've said before, more jews died in Germany's camp system in a few weeks than Israel has killed Palestinians in 70+ years.

Doesn't mean Palestinian deaths are OK or to be brushed away, far from it. But a bit of perspective. Israel isn't trying to "wipe out" Gaza. It never has been. Too heavy-handed, too indiscrimate, I accept completely. I don't think too many people would debate that.

But that's a world apart from trying to wipe out a population and people seem desperate to have words lose all meaning.

If Israel wanted to "wipe out" Gaza they have the military means to do it in a few days. I've also seen claims that Israel is embarking on a "slow genocide". Equally ridiculous, population of Gaza is constantly rising, and the death rate since 1948 has negligible impact on the rising population. At this rate it would have to be a slow, multi-millenium plan.

I respect people who say things like Israel are too indiscriminate, too uncaring, show too little regard for civilian deaths, and everything else. No question.

Again, doesn't make the rate of civilian deaths ok or acceptable. But I absolutely refute these claims that it's embarking on genocide, and comparisons to what the Nazi's inflicted on the jews.

Israel is guilty of many things, but "genocide" of Gaza is not one of them.

What everyone should hope for, is a genuine effort for peace after this is over. What form that would take I have no idea, don't think anyone does. But the eyes on the world are on this in a way they haven't been in decades, a hard-to-see positive from what's happening right now.

Hamas went in too hard in a total gamble and exposed themselves for what they are. Israel has responded predictably, maybe understandably, justifably unacceptably.

But there's no winning people over to the cause of Hamas in the longer term. The future of the region exists without them. They're an intolerant, backward, stone-people, women-have-no-rights, throw-gays-off-the-tallest-building savagery.

I don't know what the best outcome is. The removal of Hamas seems a given but how can that be achieved without a ground invasion that'll inevitably cause countless casulties.

We're in a rock and hard place right now and thought has to be given to more than just tomorrow or next week, needs to be next year, and the year after that.

I never said anything about a grave existential threat. I'm not talking about Israel not being able to defend itself on its own militarily without the US. I'm talking about politically more than anything. They've protected them for years and shielded them using veto time and time again.

Some of the most notable instances:

1972: Resolution condemning Israel for an attack on a Palestinian guerrilla camp in Lebanon.

1973: Resolution calling for a ceasefire during the Yom Kippur War.

1980: Resolution condemning Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem.

1982: Resolution condemning Israeli actions in Lebanon during the Lebanon War.

2002: Resolution demanding that Israel withdraw from Palestinian cities.

2006: Resolution calling for a ceasefire during the Israel-Lebanon conflict.

2011: Resolution condemning Israeli settlements in the West Bank.

2018: Resolution calling for protection for the Palestinian people in the occupied Palestinian territories.

2019: Resolution calling for international protection for the Palestinians in the occupied territories.

And there have been many more. No other country backs them anything remotely like the extent to which the US does. And even if they lost that, shur they don't care what anyone else thinks of them, they'll do what they want anyway. They could be sanctioned left right and centre and they wouldn't vare. But they'd find it far more difficult. Biden didn't arrive over there today for nothing.

Also, where do the vast majority of Israel's weapons come from right now, that's right, the US, so where will they come from without them. Russia, China? They won't manufacture anything like what they would need on their own. If the UN vote against them are the likes of France, UK, Germany going to start supplying them?

Even with a well functioning economy, if they lose the US, there's no way they would carry on as they are. Things would be much more difficult for them.

When I'm making the point that Israel should never have been created in the first place, it's to make the point that it's completely understandable that they are still facing resistance from the people they displaced. It's very easy for others around the world to look down on those who continue to attack them, but most people who do haven't a clue why Israel continue to be attacked. They created the situation themselves, they pushed for ownership of these lands and expected that those they took them from should head off into the sunset quitely. They will obviously not up sticks now and their only chance of peace is to finish off all the military groups around them who pose a threat to them. Is that ok though. Is it ok for them to have taken those people's lands based on some nonsense in an ould story book, and for them to continue to take more and more using force and then to eventually finish off any resistance to it using more force? That's all ok now because some time has passed. Is there a deadline that passed where now it doesn't matter what happened before? They are still in the wrong in my eyes.

Zionists have a lot to answer for!

A tiny little sovereign state to be chipped away at again and again by the greedy Zionists. Can't understand why they wouldn't go for that?

Let's be clear here. Noone is saying that the creation of Israel was certifably right. But it exists now. It has existed for 70 years, it has an incredibly advanced and wealthy economy, it has a world-class military in the region. Israel is here and it is not going anywhere.

So doesn't matter if you think the foundation of Israel was wrong. It's a perfectly fine opinion, but it's not helpful in debating the current conflict.

No-one is making excuses, more just debating with the actual real-world reality.

The people who are in what's left of Palestine are facing the reality of what it is like when a group like the Zionists see their plan finally come to fruition.

"My  point is, they are the original aggressor"

A narrow point but can it be established who was the initial aggressor?

If the conflict escalates and leads to Iran directly attacking Israel and the US retaliating alongside Israel then, despite Iran's assistance to Russia with the "operation" in Ukraine, I doubt that Russia would go to war on Iran's behalf.

Palestinian leaders are lying playing the media inflating children and women casualties as I have always suspected.

The bombed hospital carpark of a dozen cars had 500 dead my accountant dosent even trust round numbers

Israel"s targets are alway shown civilians why should webelieve these terrorists and show any sympathy surely other Arab state know this is all a charade just to get a non Muslim state out of there backyard.

Give back the hostages now u lying scumbags

"We all know and accept..."

Not there yet.

It appears or there is a speculation that said Palestinian rocket was intercepted in the air which caused it to break apart and part of it fell on parking lot in front of that hospital. Blame should be assigned to both parties equally.

And since rockets are still flying out of Gaza and bombs are still landing in there, nothing changed and carnage continue.

Look up Zionism.

I didn't say they should, I said if they did.