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Storm Babet - Oct 17th 2023

15791011

Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Mod Note: A number of completely off topic posts removed (verging into conspiracy theories!). Can we stick to talking about the weather please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,766 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    RTE called the Midleton event in 2012 a "cloudburst", not sure what that means but can only assume it was torrential rain and a high tide.

    Cloudburst causes east Cork flooding (rte.ie)

    And it seems to be getting worse each time.

    Midleton cleans up after flooding – The Irish Times

    "this is the third time that we’ve been flooded in the past 12 years and it’s definitely the worse - more water came in and went further back the shop than it did on either of the other two occasions"

    "the flooding stemmed from a combination of heavy rains and a high tide in the Owencurra River which resulted in river levels rising above the exit levels of drains which in turn led to water backing up on to the street."

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 12,137 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    Unfortunately my automatic rain gauge is in the blink and didn't empty my manual gauge, v busy few days.

    The Spa below is quite accurate from a Davis station , 42mm yesterday and 13mm today.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    I'm from Midleton and remember it well. We had 1 hour of biblical rain, so much that the rain couldn't drain away and just kept building up. I can't recall exactly how much fell but it was pretty substantial.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Ye syran should get a Job with met eirrean he knows wayyyy more than anyone in this and themselves in met eirrean , sryan knows his stuff big time and I'm not saying that to sound sarcastic or anything I'm quite serious



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,766 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yeah I read that it was 1 hours worth of rain that did all the damage. It must have been epic.

    The big question for me is why ye don't have 2 letter 'd's in Midleton??

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    Monsoon like conditions, never seen anything even close to it since or before :)

    Haha that's a good question to which the answer is below.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,521 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    Have to be paying through the nose for insurance in Midleton.

    If the floods keep getting worse and more often they have to get serious about flood protection for the town or allow it to slowly migrate into less flood prone zones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,766 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Fascinating story, I love those old quirky ones. Thanks for sharing.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Getting OT, but was 2012 the same year that saw massive flooding in Mallow too? I remember seeing a photo of a bus shelter with the water almost up to the top!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭SleetAndSnow


    Not hearing much about high tide issues, which is a good sign hopefully





  • A lot of the comments elsewhere are conflating this with Cork City centre low lying areas and tidal flooding. Many of the areas that have flooded aren’t tidal, and aren’t necessarily even low lying. There’s absolutely enormous damage in Glanmire for example.

    It’s entirely surface water being completely overwhelming the drains, both manmade plumbing and natural waterways.

    It also seems to have been extremely localised. A few km away in the city it was wet and there was some random minor flooding from surface water, but nothing horrendous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Dublin, wicklow and wexford in a yellow till 05:00




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,977 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Im in Cobh which is about 5 miles as the crow flies from Midleton.

    Bang on 100mm since yesterday morning. 44mm yesterday, 56mm today. Thats an underestimate as I know the wind effects it.

    Theres a weather station down in Youghal - could be slightly uphill - but it registered 104mm TODAY, and a further 30mm yesterday.


    No river or flood defenses can really cope with 104mm in a day.


    So for my station we "only" warranted Orange today, but for that Youghal station it did warrant a red. To me I feel we need to adjust the criteria for rain. We get orange wind warnings very readily, but rarely orange rain warnings.


    Red warning criteria -

    Greater than 50mm in 6 hrs or less

    Greater than 60mm in 12 hrs or less

    Greater than 80mm in 24 hrs or less



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭pureza


    A lot of flooding around Arklow now

    Manhole tops lifted,Golf course is a lake

    I've been sent a WhatsApp of that with roads like rivers but cannot share because there's people talking in it

    I've recorded 48.4mm so far





  • They need more granularity than “county cork” on the warnings though.

    Also risk to life seemed relatively low compared to an extreme wind event. It was hugely disruptive and damaging to property due to getting everything water sodden and muddy and even sewage sodden but it’s nothing like the risks with flying debris and falling trees etc.

    I ’m not convinced that you could have done much to predict this unless you’d local weather radar like they use in tornado impacted areas.

    That dump of rain was confined to about 15km radius and it was very random. You would struggle to forecast much more than bursts could be possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    15km radius??? Midleton got the brunt of the widepsread flooding but there's roads virtually impassable throughout an area much bigger than 15km.....

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭SleetAndSnow


    There's flooding ranging from Glandore in west cork to glanmire which was under water, passage and roachestown, Midleton and to the furthest east cork corner, as well as the city centre, many suburbs, let alone the flooding in Waterford. 15 km radius? It was forecast in weather charts for a good few days, as can be seen on Carlow weather's Twitter, with the UKMO naming the system early this week.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • Having driven around tonight, it’s localised spots and very localised at that. There isn’t widespread flooding around the city. There’s some surface water and that’s about it.

    Glanmire is looking like a natural disaster zone and so is Midleton. It was a system with rain localised random rain bursts.

    If you’d shut county cork today what exactly would it have achieved? It’s a big chuck of economic activity stopped. It has knock on impacts for all sorts of stuff, including healthcare etc.

    Many of the places hit are very residential. So it’s not like people working from home would be any less likely to face disruption.

    The majority of the well over half a million people who live in Cork were very mildly impacted and mostly just inconvenienced by traffic jams.

    The severe flooding is highly localised.

    There will be more because of swollen rivers over the next 24-48hours and that’s more predictable.

    I think Met Eireann is dammed if it does and damned if it doesn’t issue red alerts. Orange with localised flood warnings seems very accurate given the conditions.

    There isn’t really any way they could model well enough to give you precise locations of those downpours.

    A wide spread severe storm like Ophelia is a different scenario entirely and needed people to take shelter and not drive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    The Straight Road Cork city, starts at the county hall and out to ballincollig - straight :D




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,100 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Thanks. Glad to think I was right in my thinking that we didn't get much.

    Just glad I didn't live in cork ☔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,218 ✭✭✭pauldry


    In the West Claremorris and Knock have had 35mm of rain in past 24 hours. This would be a lot if Cork hadn't 100mm. Actually it is a lot. In Sligo we have seen 24mm in the 2 days but still raining for next 14 hours at least so 40mm plus from this thing before showery rain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    It's not quite the devastating scenes in Cork but I was surprised how rough the sea was here on the east coast this afternoon. Sure it was a southeasterly direction but still wind was relatively light. Pics from Seapoint, Dublin 2 hours after high tide. Makes me wonder had there been actual strong winds..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭JanuarySnowstor


    Paschal finally turned up on the 9 o clock news!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,384 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy




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  • The UK's Met Office has issued a rare red warning for the Aberdeenshire area of Eastern Scotland for Thursday going into Friday. Saying that up to 250mm of rain could fall. An extraodinary total if it happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87,871 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,218 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Sligo leading a charmed life tonight. Very heavy rain just to our East keeps missing us so wer only getting 1mm an hour instead of 5mm.





  • Do we even know how much rain fell in Midleton today?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,609 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    In hindsight a red warning would have been safer - it wouldn't have done much for businesses or most of the homes , maybe towns need graded flood warnings and alerts ,- if you live in a flood prone area you'd subscribe to a flood alert system ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦





  • I wouldn't know for Midleton itself, but up to 100mm fell quite widely.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,609 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    The timing of the flood posed an extreme risk yesterday -

    The floods started just before 1 , kids left school at one on Wednesday, they re-opened my young fellas school at 1.20,but most of the kids had left

    I went off looking for my young fella,

    At 1 o'clock i got wet to my calves and a bit of a current ,

    20 mins later i was up to my thighs , 10 mins after to my waist , and a serious current , and i still hadnt gound him - ( he showed up 30 mins later ) ,

    But i was getting very worried by then - 20 mins later it was shoulder high in places on the main street - and the water coming down drury lane wss a raging torrent..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭pureza


    This is the issue

    No matter how many stations you have,you're getting just a broad measure and will miss extremes that may be higher locally than recorded at the nearest station

    Whilst if these floods happened in Dublin but without a red,the very fact a million plus people would have been impacted,Glasnevin would have had to endure much more criticism

    Their defence on morning ireland was that parts of Cork only had yellow level rain amounts

    If ever there was a justification for applying warnings to areas of counties,this is a reason to do so

    Meanwhile still some showery rain in Arklow this morning and a lot of surface flooding

    Total for the episode here 71mm

    Month total gone up to 115mm

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭SleetAndSnow


    What an awful defence, can't believe they said that? Also shows the problem with only using specific metrics, and not taking potential impacts into account. Just because some areas had yellow amounts, doesn't mean that rivers in those areas burst their banks and flooded the towns anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,218 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Total in Sligo for Babet is now 44mm after 24mm has fallen in the past 12 or so hours.

    Monthly total still only 72mm as apart from this and last Friday wev only had 13mm



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    Is the worst past now? Has Babet moved on?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    That must of been a scary hour for you,thank god everything worked out OK and just shows how easily something can go wrong and a life lost





  • Had it hit just a few km further west and south it would have been in Cork City centre or extremely densely populated parts of the inner suburbs.

    Had it hit Little Island you’re talking about one of the largest clusters of employment in the state ~40,000 ppl.

    Glanmire is a suburb, within the city council area nowadays, albeit on the edge of the city and Midleton. The official populations of those places often aren’t including large areas of housing around and between them. There are at least 20,000 people around Glanmire for example.

    It hit a very significantly populated area on the edge of Cork City.

    This is why I was saying earlier their granularity for Cork is ridiculous. For weather alerts it should be split into probably 4 areas. The county covers far too wide a geographical area to make the definition useful, and there’s a massive distinction between some of those areas in terms of exposure to storms vs cold weather etc etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,609 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Honestly , local councils areas should have a flood alert system , possibly colour coded for expected severity ,taking into account rainfall/tidal conditions time of the year ect - so if midleton gives a yellow warning ,people at distillery end of main street know to beware ( small floods several times a year ..i think the council already gives a heads up to these businesses) ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    The post mortem, the questions

    One of the replies to that tweet:

    "Bad weather will happen. Given the flooding was to one specific area rather than widespread, this looks like a local infrastructure issue primarily!"

    Amazing how flipant people can be. And also ill informed and then from there making wide sweeping statements w/o first hand knowledge. Smacks of arrogance also

    This "specific area" comment is wholly down to media coverage of this I imagine. RTE straight away have latched onto midleton and then imply that East Cork, a few towns there is where the action was and no where else



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    The warning system doesn't seem to take into account the current state of affairs either. If we had 12cm of rain after a month of drought the impact is going to be totally different to 12cm of rain on top of 20-25cm over the previous month (Which is approx what transpired yesterday).

    Post edited by mcburns07 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,218 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Up to 52mm from this now in Sligo. 23mm since midnight



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 635 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    But is that response really flippant?

    It's the lack of adaptation that's biting in these areas. Yesterday there was a video doing the rounds of a small mini-digger cutting a wider trench across a road to relieve the water. Why are the rivers and culverts not being cleared so when the heavy rains arrive the excess water can quickly get to sea. How many storm drains on the roads yesterday are chocked with gunk and leaves?

    In fairness now, the governments of many shades have been only too delighted to cream huge amounts of money in the form of carbon taxes for nearly two decades now and very little has been spent. If pointing this out is 'flippant' then it gives the authorities carte blanche to continue as is and nothing will get done - so expect further flooding events and leave it to insurance companies to pay for the clean up costs each time.

    Then we'll moan about the gouging insurance companies in due course.

    Carlow Weather was on radio a few weeks back and was demonised for pointing out that much much more needs to be spent on adaptation and that we need a proper flood alert system. One of the high horses of the green movement lambasted him. And look at what happened just a few weeks later.

    If everyone in Ireland was zero emissions from tomorrow onwards, we are still going to get weather events such as yesterday - so all the spending on mitigation isn't worth a dime if emissions continue to grow elsewhere in the world. It's days like yesterday that drive that message home to any logical thinking person. Yet a green councillor Liam Quaide in Cork tweeted yesterday "Climate change is here. Absolutely vital that we double down on mitigation & adaptation." Talk about gaslighting people. Same cabal of councillors have down through the years stalled any meaningful works to protect properties built on flood plains.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Point taken @InAtFullBack .. I suppose I was reading that tweet reply and focusing on the "Given the flooding was to one specific area rather than widespread" - Sounded like from somebody who may not live in the Cork area where the flooding was widespread. Maybe flipant is the wrong word, but i see this kind of thing here at boards weather and elsewhere online and just find it annoying - the shur its all calm where I am so what are you talking about 100kms away with your floods and storm type of thing OR making authoritive judgements from affar type thing



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