Cult of Stephen Kenny

28 competitive goals conceded is a standout stat : Irish teams were never this leaky under Trap, MON and Mick.

It's a definite indicator the team was underperforming and was not even well set up defensively.

It's not quite that simple. Watch how the Greeks played, they were very positive with their first pass when they attacked, they were very comfortable taking the ball under pressure, shielding it and finding a team mate with a pass. When people talk how good players are technically, these lads surprised me with how good they are technically. Some of our lads just can't do that which doesn't surprise me playing in the Championship or lower half of the Premier League.

One incident doesn't sum anything up but as a symptom, look at the touch Knight (I think) took when he could have been in on goal.

That's not excusing the manager by the way. A lot of our problems come from his set up. A good man, a good manager but out of his depth at this level.

They aren't good enough to play in better leagues. We were told that about Luxembourg too. That they were making great strides and were extremely technical.

Yet our players playing at levels far higher than luxembourg couldn't beat them or break them down and outplayed by them. Incredible really. It's a real excuse when we are outplayed that Kenny fanboys throw out,

Could be lots of reasons. I'm not saying they are great players but they looked a lot more comfortable on the ball than our lads last week.

Some very good technical players have struggled in England. Veron was a shadow of the player in England that he was elsewhere, Ndombele at Tottenham has unbelievable ability but rarely shown it in England.

Your post is defending Kenny. His whole reign has been littered with his supporters talking up opposition while talking down our players. Previous managers were criticised heavily for talking down our players, for some reason it became ok when Kenny took over.

Greece are not much better than Georgia, around the same level yet McCarthy was lambasted for drawing away to Georgia. Where were all the Kennyites talking about disrespecting the league's their players played in or talking up their technical ability?

It's not English football centric to say that the Premier League is superior to the Greek and Turkish leagues. It's just a fact. Before Kenny took over we were competing with top European countries like Denmark and Switzerland. We've sunk so low under Kenny that now anyone who thinks we should compete for qualification or have the cheek to think we should beat Greece have some form of complex.

It's a fact that the EPL is superior but most of Ireland's players don't play in the EPL and those that do are hardly first team regulars.

We have a team mostly made up of lower league players in England. Realistically we are at a similar level to teams like Greece. What Irish players, with the exception of Ferguson, would make any difference to the Greek team if they were to play for them. None is the answer.

Do you think Greece would fear playing Ireland, irrespective of who our manager is, looking at the players at our disposal.

The way the Irish media went on after we lost in Athens was like it was expected we should win such a game away from home. I'm sure the Greeks would have seen the game as a game they should be winning and would have been disgusted to drop points if they had of done.

It is the manner of the defeats against Greece though, football is a sport where technically poor sides can at least make it very awkward for teams that are not world beaters. Ireland always used to at least try to do that no matter what the level of players were historically, a result against Ireland had to be earned. Occasionally Ireland might even get a jammy a result against a real top side.

But Ireland are miles off that at the moment. First Ireland have to start competing with mid tier international sides again, at least make it awkward for them. That can easily be done by defensive structure and altering a style of play.

And all this this 'philosophy' nonsense should be put to bed, that is an underage/schoolboy coaches job.

A senior international managers job (particularly at a poor/average side) is to build a team mentality and tactics that has the best chance of getting results based on the players available. And not make it easy for an opponent to get a result. That is the basics of it as far as I see.

Cascarino and Townsend both say similar and they were pro footballers, they were never lads with notions beyond where their strengths and weaknesses were.

For sure, they looked better organised. Their patterns of play were better. But so were the basics they had like controlling a pass, taking a positive first touch and taking the ball under pressure. Scotland look better under Clarke but they don't look any better technically.

Kenny is in over his head but I think it's a bit insulting to label him "completely inept". The man is a good manager, just not at this level.

I wasn't, I wanted McCarthy to stay for the playoffs.

So for the starting line up we had the 5 EPL players:

• Doherty
• Collins
• Cullen
• Ogbene
• Ferguson

I'd seriously question if three of that five are EPL standard. I don't think any team in the world would fear anyone on that list with the exception of Ferguson.

Pure lies - Mick had a better squad ffs and at the end he wasnt pulling up any trees...not sure he would have got us past the play off either...

Don't forget when Kenny took over we lost players as well and some of the older players he inherited you know got older, there was a load of covid stuff too.. We have a pretty young squad at the moment... one of the youngest in Europe... I'm not sure another manager would have DRAMATICALLY changed our fortunes in qualifying for tournaments.... anyway that's hypothetical so we will never know.

He's done now any way so hopefully a new manager can come in and continue bedding these players in and hopefully add a few more to the group... the new manager is going to come into a group who have at least been blooded and will have some good players how are improving like Ferguson, Johnstone and Ogbene... however, realistically our center of midfield is very poor... Knight & Cullen imo are not good enough at the moment imo....Knight is young so could improve.

Who would you like to take over (realistically) ?

Ferguson would, Ogbene would and a few more id say.

the defending for the second goal was really bad, you cant blame kenny for that.

Kenny was out of his depth, but his stubborn nature is what damned him. His 'I want the team to play a certain way' schtick just doesn't cut it without the players. It's like approaching a punk band and saying you now want them to play jazz. 'But they're a pretty good punk band, Stephen'. 'I don't care. I'm a jazz fan. And they will play jazz even if they're rubbish at it.' This blinkered approach was his undoing.

I remember the 'glory years' of Euro 88 - USA 94. I know in hindsight people judge our football in those days harshly, long ball etc. But I don't remember anyone bar Dunphy complaining when we were beating big teams and qualifying for tournaments. It's a cliche, but football is a results business.

But the next manager will still have to deal with the larger problem of continuing player development failure at the FAI. For generations we outsourced our player development to clubs in England. But times have changed. Look at the Charlton era - squad was full of players from Liverpool, Arsenal, Man United. But the vast majority of players in England at that time were from the Uk or Ireland. There were very few players from outside these islands. As the English clubs broadened their horizons and started recruiting from all over the world, chances for young players from Ireland and the UK shrank. And Brexit has only made it worse.

This doesn't just affect us - Bellingham and Sancho both went to Germany in search of game time. So without proper investment in the underage setup, the FAI will have to hope that another European league suddenly decides to do some scouting over here. And I wouldn't bet on that.

McCarthy's reign wasn't great but his record was played 10, won 5, drew 4, lost 1. And Kenny had all the same players bar Whelan. He used all the same players as well. This myth that he was playing young players from the start has been destroyed. Kenny invented that after the Luxembourg defeat. Up to that he was playing McCarthy's team minus retirements. Then it all came about building for 2024, look at how that has gone!

Let's be clear also, any manager in charge would have brought these young players in. Some of our best players in a generation were emerging. They were better options on what was there before. Bazunu got a premier league move, same with Collins, loads of other breakthrough like I've mentioned before. Even McCarthy had brought in Connolly and Parrott. It's been mentioned before, Staunton gave debuts to more players than Kenny, actually had some decent results but no one remembers that, he's remembered as a manager way out of his depth. It will be the same with Kenny.

No, Kenny had nearly all of McCarthy's squad who came very close to qualifying for Euro 2020 and who were mostly in their prime, added to that were a whole host of emerging talent and he turned that squad into no hopers coming near the bottom of every Nation's League and qualification group. That's the actual reality and Kenny will be remembered as a disaster of a manager like Stan.

Great post. What Kenny tried to do is laudable, he has his footballing principles and tried to implement them but he just didn't do it very well. I posted on here when he was appointed that I didn't think he'd succeed because it's a very difficult thing to do from the top down. By the time players reach Kenny, if they aren't really capable of adapting to what he wants to do, it's too late. I do think Kenny underestimated the task in front of him on many, many levels but he's a good football man and he gave it a go. He was just out of his depth at that level and gave himself an impossible task with what he tried to do.

I've watched a fair bit of underage football. Some of it makes me despair - shouts of "get rid of it", booting the ball down the line, aimless hoofing. Coaches who deserve credit for volunteering but, in reality, are just parents coaching because no-one else will do it and they don't have the time to get themselves educated. However, at the upper levels in Dublin (which is all I can speak for), clubs like Rovers, Josephs, Kevins, Cherry Orchard, Shels, Home Farm and so on are trying to teach kids how to play football "the right way". However, like you say, it takes time and we're still suffering from underinvestment. These clubs can only do so much - the FAI need to do more.