"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

FrancieBrady · 19-10-2023 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259269#Comment_121259269

There was a stampede to point the finger at him and the coach's after the game, but he was still contributing to the end.

robbiezero · 19-10-2023 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121257589#Comment_121257589

Just the minor detail of never having won a knock out game in 36 years of world cup history.

You make it sound like it is the charity shield cup, not what is by a mile the main tournament and the yardstick against which all great teams are judged.

swiwi_ · 19-10-2023 4:47pm

Not sure what is more bloodthirsty. Russia vs Ukraine, Hamas vs Israel or Irish fans vs each other when Ireland lose.

FrancieBrady · 19-10-2023 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259524#Comment_121259524

It doesn't much matter to me to be perfectly honest.

That was technically a final in terms of the standings of the two teams.

There wasn't a man on the pitch who was not intent on winning that and what happened to other teams in the past would have been far from their minds.

The notion that we failed because 'we always fail' is evidentially false (we have won everything else available) and is the worst kind of cod phycology.

aloooof · 19-10-2023 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259352#Comment_121259352

Look, I’m not at all in the “they choked” camp, but there was a perfectly credible argument to bring on Crowley for the last 10 mins.

That doesn’t mean I’m stampeding to point the finger at Sexton or the coaches.

showpony1 · 19-10-2023 5:01pm

what was the point in going all out to beat SA and celebrate the "prize" of getting a tougher game in NZ. Seems to be all pride and a stupid idea that beating SA dealt out a "psychological blow" when they are flying in the Semis.

We simply should have played a mix of reserves/first team while winning the first two games easily, rested all our first team against SA and lost, played our full first team against Scotland and France and we'd be in the Semis now.

Podge_irl · 19-10-2023 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259611#Comment_121259611

There was, but I don't think there are very many coaches in world rugby who would have done it.

FrancieBrady · 19-10-2023 5:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259611#Comment_121259611

I have no problem with that aloof. Might Crowley have done something to win the game, who knows. I think the coach wanted experience more than anything else at that point. Both POV are valid.

That's not the stampede I am talking about. It was aimed at the absolutists who claimed it was brain dead to leave him on because he was out on his feet.

tobefrank321 · 19-10-2023 5:09pm

The northern hemisphere has to look at the issue of peaking at the world cup.

On paper the northern hemisphere is a match for anyone, and its been said the 6 nations is a stronger competition than the rugby championship.

And yet world cup after world cup, northern teams are demolished or beaten by southern teams, particularly in the latter stages of the competition, with the odd exception.

The southern hemisphere always peak in the knock out rounds, whereas NH teams don't.

ulsteru20s · 19-10-2023 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253083#Comment_121253083

I don’t know…

A few guys imo just had bad games by their standards. VdF for one. Doris as well although his skillset doesn’t really suit what the game turned into. JGP also had a weak game.

I thought we went off scheme and paid the price. I still think we are the better team but def didn’t play as well as we can. Maybe an 80% performance.

Curse These Metal Hands · 19-10-2023 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259269#Comment_121259269

Pity we weren't in a position to build towards a drop goal there. Sexton's miss was poor but Murray's petulant penalty was unforgivable. Can't afford such things in games like this.

eagle eye · 19-10-2023 6:01pm

For all you guys dumping on the Irish team. How about you wait until the World Cup is over? If New Zealand win with two dominant performances then it shows that we met the best team in the tournament and would likely have made the final had we not faced them in the Quarter-final.

Dubinusa · 19-10-2023 6:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259668#Comment_121259668

Demolished? Please stop! We lost by 4. France lost by a geehair.

captbarnacles · 19-10-2023 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259680#Comment_121259680

No idea what Murray was thinking. Your fullback is Keenan so you gotta be confident he is going to catch it.

AbusesToilets · 19-10-2023 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259971#Comment_121259971

Probably could've been a penalty/ YC against Barrett aswell, given how Keenan landed.

TheRona · 19-10-2023 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259975#Comment_121259975

How does this work? If an Irish player knocks his own player off balance while they're in the air making a catch, they just penalise the nearest All Black?

mrm · 19-10-2023 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121260113#Comment_121260113

Jesus, of course not.

Doesn't have to be the nearest, any All Black on the pitch will do.

AbusesToilets · 19-10-2023 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121260113#Comment_121260113

From memory, Keenan fell over Jordie, who didn't jump because of Murray, but not sure he was ever in a realistic position to challenge.

tobefrank321 · 20-10-2023 12:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259934#Comment_121259934

Wales well beaten, England will be well beaten. I said demolished OR beaten. It will be an all SH final and another SH winner like 90% of previous tournaments.

SH dominance in the World Cup is and always was OVERWHELMING, as in never in doubt.

Greengrass53 · 20-10-2023 1:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259975#Comment_121259975

Oh pleeeaaaase. Just stop

TheRona · 20-10-2023 3:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261066#Comment_121261066

Na, it was Beirne who put Keenan off balance. Jordie had already been flattened.

FrancieBrady · 20-10-2023 8:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261368#Comment_121261368

I think we now know why it is happening in this particular competition. It's suits their season better. That's were those 4 extra, 1 extra points are coming from.

tobefrank321 · 20-10-2023 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261633#Comment_121261633

At elite level it usually comes down to fine margins and who is that 1 or 2% better when it matters. Unfortunately that wasn't us.

FrancieBrady · 20-10-2023 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262181#Comment_121262181

I agree, but on a level playing field there is nothing between the top teams. There has to be a reason why the SH teams do so well at this specific contest and I think part of it is because of it's timing.

How you deal with that given the commitments NH teams have is anyone's guess. Would I be in favour of taking the foot off in the 6 Nations in order to win a World Cup - absolutely not TBH. I wouldn't want our competitions diminished so there has to be care taken in getting the balance right.

tobefrank321 · 20-10-2023 11:31am

The performance of the 6 nations teams at the world cup was overall poor. Scotland, Wales and Italy completely underperformed and I read nothing into Wales win against an awful Australia. England have yet to be tested, but I can see the game against SA being over after 20 minutes. You'd expect France to beat SA, especially at home, and you'd expect us to beat NZ, expecially if they had 2 yellows.

The biggest issue for NH teams at the WC is consistancy and the ability to string 3 or 4 good games together which you need to go far in it. Its frustrating.

FrancieBrady · 20-10-2023 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262255#Comment_121262255

Clearly it isn't, looking at the tournament overall since it began.

Unless your claim is the SH teams are significantly better - the facts don't support that IMO. IRE, FRA, in this cycle are certainly on a par with the best in SH. A 1 point and a 4 point win bears that oiut.

Augme · 20-10-2023 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262218#Comment_121262218

SH teams have generally always been a level above their NH counterparts. Ireland only best NZ for the first time in 2016. France have always been widely inconsistent and, at times, just bad. Same with the other NH teams. They all gone through periods of being great to awful.

The SH have always been consistently excellent and are consistently used to winning. Very few NH have been capable of doing that over long periods. This world cup is probably the first ever where two NH teams have looked as strong as their SH counterparts. It's no surprise that the teams who have a more consistent winning mentality have pulled out the victories.

As for not wanting the six nations to be diminished, it is already as there's only two good teams in it. The rest are average, at best.

FrancieBrady · 20-10-2023 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262356#Comment_121262356

Well if that's the case, we aren't going to win this thing until we become consistent.

IMO there are subtler things like the timing of the tournament and the commitment to our own competitions at club and country level that are producing the consistent WC results.

Just my view of it and I am not sure what can be done about that.

awec · 20-10-2023 12:31pm

I don't think the 6N has anything to do with it tbh, or at least I don't think us focusing on winning 6Ns has anything to do with it, I think we proved that this year. We were excellent in the 6N this cycle, nothing was sacrificed, and we were in an excellent position going into this WC. Everything was set up perfectly for us, I don't think you could possibly be in a better position.

The problem, IMO, is entirely down to mentality and preparation.

We haven't figured out how to prepare a team to do the business in the pool stages but then be able to further raise their game in the knockouts, I don't think we've yet learnt how to build momentum to peak at the absolute best time. SA and NZ know how to do this.

The RWC is obviously a different beast to the 6N, it's a much more difficult tournament to be successful in. Even with the plethora of fairly average teams involved, the format, schedule, squad restrictions etc make it far more difficult.

I think the approach you need to win a 6N is very different to the approach required to be successful at a RWC, and we just haven't figured out what the differences required are yet.

"I started a joke, that started the whole world ......" | Ireland v New Zealand.

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