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Has Paddy Cosgrave overstepped the mark?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Cosgrave will be in the business books and spoken about on the MBA courses of elite universities worldwide. Not for the reasons he had imagined in his own head though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭howiya


    CEO of a company needs to understand his customer base. You won't see many CEOs take to twitter or X with the prevalence that Cosgrave did. It doesn't matter what he said this time, there was always going to be a time when he would say something that would end up hurting his business.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Anyone surfing around X on the morning of the Hamas attacks would have seen the pieces of film shot by the go-pros of the attackers.

    To comment other than to express disgust and horror at the pictures reveals a lack of humanity that is frightening.

    Paddy was always going to be hoist on his own petard, he just didn’t think it would be this one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,612 ✭✭✭LowOdour


    Does this Cosgrave / Web Summit story make you consider what you post, like and retweet on social media?

    I don't mean extreme views, but liking post for pro-Palestinian marches in Dublin or retweeting criticism of Von der leyen support of Israel.

    Not radical stuff. But feel that it now it could used as a reason for, example, a perspective employer not to hire you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,502 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Indeed, but this also illustrates the power of the pro-Israel lobby among governments and in big corporations. As a state, the Israeli regime is probably hated by the general population in many countries, even across Europe and the US, but they have massive influence much further up the chain.





  • Yeah it seems timing was his downfall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,190 ✭✭✭circadian



    I'd like to point to sections;

    2.a.iv

    2.b.i, ii, iii, iv, v, ix, xx,


    And so on. Are Hamas in breach? 100% but that doesn't somehow absolve the Israeli behaviour.


    As much as a twat Cosgrave is, he wasn't wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    I'd imagine bombing and levelling a hospital is a war crime?



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭keynes



    Jews have higher IQs and have disproportionate influence among leading corporations and the intellectual elite. Very silly of Cosgrave to commit this gaffe (aka, telling the truth in public). All he needed to do was upset one bigwig to set off the inevitable bandwagon.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    I'd agree with much of what Paddy would state about FF/FG and that's the reason why he attracts so much bile on here because he upsets their supporters and cronies.

    If you have a very high profile, and clearly PC does internationally as well as nationally, you need to tread very carefully if you're going to criticise Israel in any capacity.

    There are others who do quite the reverse and profit quite handsomely from it. They support Israel quite vociferously with the oul trope of "Israel has a right to defend itself", brush aside Palestinian issues and they do very well for themselves. Piers Morgan is at that a lot these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Amazon becomes latest tech giant to pull out of Web Summit (msn.com)

    Cosgrave is exactly the type of person who would give one of his employees a hard time if he or she expressed pro-Israeli views or anything else that did not agree with his current rant. So he should have thought about what his counterparts in big organisations would do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,033 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    That depends. Not necessarily, see my definition.

    BTW according to the more trustworthy sources like BBC verify, on the balance of probabilities the hospital got accidentally bombed by Palestinian terrrorists, not by the IDF. I'm keeping an open mind on this until there is more proof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,190 ✭✭✭circadian


    What definition, and why does yours carry more weight than what is agreed by the UN and international community? UN run schools have been hit, that is a clear breach. The bombing is without regard for surrounding areas or civilians. Several places of worship have been destroyed either directly or indirectly. These are clear breaches.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,033 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    It's a war, innocent civilians get killed. As long as the civilians weren't the target and the number of civilian casualties weren't disproportional, there is no war crime. The latter is a flexible term, if combatants operate from the midst of civilians, even using hostages and / or human shields, there doesn't seem to be any restriction



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,190 ✭✭✭circadian


    2.b.iv

    "Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;"





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,033 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @circadian - exactly. Excessive is the key word here. From jurisprudence this is very flexible when combatants operate from within civilian areas / use human shields, which is likely the case here.

    An example of when a bombing clearly is a war crime is dropping the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki when the aim was to kill civilians



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Bombing a hospital is targeting civilians, many of them children.

    Thanks for confirming a war crime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,190 ✭✭✭circadian


    Has there been any evidence that the Israeli targets actually took out tunnels, weapons caches or high value targets? I've seen a handful of high value targets killed but beyond that, nothing. Claiming that they're human shields deprives them of their victimhood, it just equates them as collateral, another number and it's ok because the multiple civilian deaths were justified because there was the potential to slightly weaken Hamas.

    In fact, there is documented evidence of IDF soldiers using Palestinians as human shields in the past.

    https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/11/26/israel-soldiers-punishment-using-boy-human-shield-inadequate

    They also have prior form, https://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/military-destroyed-hospital/

    Not to mention countless denials, cover ups and subsequent admission of killing journalists, UN peacekeepers etc all in contravention of the Geneva Convention.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,502 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    A "war crime" can be any time that civilians are killed or injured as a result of military action, depending on the circumstances.

    The human shields excuse is used by every terrorist group and terrorist state to justify their killing of civilians.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    He’s resigned




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,684 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I'm out of the loop with this fellow. Why does erbody dislike him?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Nope, it's cos he actively encouraged online pile ons on Twitter. It's almost poetic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Beefcake82


    "Unfortunately my personal comments have become a distraction from the event, and our team, our sponsors, our startups and the people who attend."

    Guy is an absolute pillock, clearly used the web summit every year to promote his "personal feelings" on global matters and now its come back to bite him in the ass. I doubt him resigning is going to stop others boycotting web summit, not bringing back those that already backed out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,428 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Paddy has resigned as CEO according to the Indo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭Field east


    I assume that any projectile that is fired leaves fragments after it and which can be verified from it as to the type of missile it is , manufactured by who and therefor - more than likely- who fired it. I am surprised therefor why Hamas did not come out with such information within hours. Or maybe it did not matter anyway because it got the ideal reaction ie international condemnation against Israel and loads of demonstrations. And if Hamas did provide evidence re missile fragments - sure they could be from any missile fired by Israel at some other target.. I found it of interest the Hamas did not allow anyone near the bombed site in the first few days - most especially the media



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭Field east


    His resignation means nothing. He, for example, still hold onto his shares, attend ALL company meetings, have a big influence , more than likely on who his replacement will be, have a continuous ‘quiet word’ in his replacement’ and other influencers’ ears , etc, etc, etc, etc. look how he operates re DITCH. He might have a bit more time to spend on the operations of Ditch. So watch out Google Siemens, Meta, etc, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,245 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I would be much more concerned about SF being in government mouthing off now than I was a few days a go.

    What happened to Paddy is that he finally interacted with the real world whether anyone likes it or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Because they're all FF or FGers or cronies thereof. He also points out blatant corruption which is never investigated by mainstream media. It ain't complicated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    It’s a huge and unnecessary risk to take. He has enough wars of his own to fight without wading into those he has no business in.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    There's a difference between government and main opposition when it comes to these types of opinions. The opposition can be ignored generally.

    You see some big swings from other countries being reported in the news (generally in the news media that'd agree with them) but when you look at it it's just a member of the opposition, generally the blow black for the country is minimal or non existent.

    Spain's had their elections a few months ago but while the opposition were ahead in seat but they'd not the number to make a government and now the former and current caretaker government is trying to appeal to a bunch of tiny far left independence parties. So we're getting very strong comments from them about Palestine. So I can see them getting a lot of blow back if it continues when the government is formed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Correct. Only a few days ago Mary Lou McD gave a speech in which she accused Israel of "carpet bombing".

    In her speech she began : "Israels carpet bombing devasted Gaza's medical infrastructure, ".

    How could the explosion she talked about, which turned out to leave a crater 3 feet by one feet maximum , "cripple the ability of Palestinians to help the injured, the sick and the dying", as she claimed in her speech?  

    She said " Yet Israel believes that it has the right to bomb hospitals". What proof has she of that, as all evidence points to the fact it was a Hamas missile and not a Israeli missile, which would have left a much bigger crater?

    As I said before, it is bad enough she seemingly does not know what carpet bombings it, ( given that the military wing of SF planted most, probably well over 99%, of the 16,200 bombs during the troubles. Just one of those for example, the Bishopsgate bomb, caused £350 million worth of damage (equivalent to about £700 million in 2023), he is making matters even more embarrassing for herself by not admitting to her mistake on her facebook page, and by having the audacity to lecture the rest of us on carpet bombing / morality.

    What would our American multinationals think of her / her government ( if we have one), given they have boycotted the web summit over Paddy Cosgraves remarks?

    I do not think Uncle Jo, who lit the white house in Israeli colours, or even the French, who lit the Efeil tower flag colours, would think too kindly of SF or even our Presidents utterances.


    Just my thoughts, anyone agree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,033 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @circadian - "Has there been any evidence that the Israeli targets actually took out tunnels, weapons caches or high value targets?"

    Evidence of results isn't required, evidence of intention does matter. Obviously if there is evidence of results or even just evidence of legitimate targets being there, that would help the case of actor who did the bombing

    But to answer your question directly, didn't Hamas acknowledge a few times when some of their leaders were killed? Although I hasten to add that I find "evidence" or statements from both sides highly questionable without independent verification



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    All very true, but we have entered an age where the price of Free Speech is to be Cancelled.

    Ironically, but predictably, we were able to speak more freely, before we enabled our right to Free Speech.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    A big blow for Sinn Fein with Paddy having to resign.

    It's not an apology either that he published, it was damage control by his PR team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,888 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    It's very difficult to dispute or go against the established American view.

    As stated above, let's see Sinn Fein behave when they get into government. If they go against America, it looks like they bail out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,502 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Not just the established American view, but more specifically the pro-Israel lobby in western politics and in huge corporations.....it looks like they are massively influential.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,888 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Well the American one is the one that most affects us. Being pro Israel is the established American view.

    This will have a chilling effect on high profile people in Ireland including our politicians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Given that Stripe was founded by Irish brothers it is outrageous that they are promoting a pro-Zionist position against the people of Palestine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Ireland is not post colonial - Six Counties remain a colony.



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭keynes


    This was just a bit of political posturing from firms concerning some junket in Europe. Leaving here and imperilling their profits (and in turn share options etc) is an entirely different story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,888 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Let's hope so.

    I would expect a cooling down of the rhetoric after this debacle.

    The Irish government and media won't want to annoy our American masters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭nachouser


    The onion guys called it a week ago. Cosgrave must have missed it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Does anyone take Paddy seriously anymore? he isn't even associated with Ireland anymore, his event is in Portugal

    He is just like Ireland's drunk uncle at a wedding giving out about everyone and everything while everyone laughs at him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    The IRA did it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,366 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I think the Irish govt. + positions of Ireland on Israel and Palestine etc. are long known, and no shock to the US or US companies (I expect). Paddy Cosgrave is not a politician or a leader.

    Maybe broadcasting your takes on very controversial stuff during times of war and conflict that will polarise your customers/business relations is a bad idea when you are in event management/pr etc...

    I thought people used to be advised to stay clear of discussion of stuff like religion and politcs in polite company? (half joking).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    That religion and politics discussion ban thing was a hangover from the War of Independence/Civil War.

    A lot of scabs from a troubled time that people wanted to avoid picking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭yagan


    I think it's more many simply don't understand our position, and I've met plenty in the US and other countries who still don't understand that we're not part of the UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    It’s still a good rule. I have a Trump-supporting relative that I should have just humoured on his visit instead of giving into (heated) debate after listening and smiling for two days. Also some of my friends are card-carrying Christians of the Pentecostal variety but I usually manage to avoid controversy with them. How much does politics really matter? For me not much.



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