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Has President Higgins overstepped the mark?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Everything he said was political,like he was a member of the opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,866 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,706 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Is the official Ireland position going slightly out of step with the majority of Europe? The recent put down of that web summit guy would suggest so.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,325 ✭✭✭howiya


    A FG councillor I know regularly criticises the President for his comments.

    Interestingly he didn't criticise the Presidents remarks about the European Commision President this week which many have seen as being aligned with the government position and that of the FG party leader.

    However he was full of criticism for the Presidents remarks yesterday about flood protection or the lack of it which could be seen as criticism of government policy.

    Seems very much as if the question of whether or not the President has overstepped the mark depends on the content of his comments rather than his ability to make comments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Casey wasnt a protest vote, people voted for him because he was honest about his views on travellers and didnt lie about having no problem living beside them like Higgins did and the rest of them.

    Casey took it too far though, he focused too much on the travellers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Zico


    Micheal D has gone beyond the norm for someone in the Presidential role.

    The next President could take this as a starting point to create their own legacy.

    Imagine that was someone like Bertie Ahern.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Complete BS.

    Direct quote

    "I think it is very important to realise from a Government policy point of view and no doubt Government is considering this, whatever protections they had were insufficient."

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭boetstark


    Well there was a barrister on Claire Byrne that said constitutionally he has no authority to speak on national or foreign policy.

    Unless you are a barrister then I think its safe to say he is correct and you are not.

    Cannot wait for the day those two horrible cretins leave office. Even looking at him makes me vomit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    He doesn't need a nursing home. He is healthy. Just stop being petty and spiteful.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    I mean he directly mentions Government policy. How is that not political?

    And a snide remark thrown in.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Zico


    He has awarded himself a greater voice and input into our lives beyond the previously ceremonious role. I'd argue that he should have sought a new mandate when deciding to redefine the role as he has done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,627 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    And again...

    Just what can the President of Ireland actually say and do? (rte.ie)

    Undoubtedly, then, there are significant restrictions on what the President can do. At the same time, and contrary to popular opinion, the Constitution places very few restrictions on what the President might say. It is a common feature of the Irish political scene for Presidents to be criticised for allegedly stepping outside their constitutional domain almost every time they express an opinion that touches on some aspect of economic or social policy. However, the only formal restrictions are in Article 13.7; namely, where the President makes a formal address to either the Oireachtas or the Nation on a matter of national importance, the address must first be approved by the Government.

    Anyone who stands for President will stand for something, and will have expressed this during their election campaign. How else can people decide which candidate to vote for? And why should the President abandon these views having been elected on the back of them?

    -----------------------

    He was at a food conference in Rome, I bet the vast majority of people didn't even know he was there.

    2 more years folks.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    RTE were never fans of SF and couldn’t be accused of taking the nationalist republican side during the troubles in any robust sense but that doesn’t not make them left wing



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is such a thing as breaking convention without breaking the law (something we have admittedly seen far more frequently across the Irish sea).

    I would also argue that while Article 29 doesn't directly apply to things the president says, it should be read to inform us on his role in international relations (which is, to say, none).

    4     1° The executive power of the State in or in connection with its external relations shall in accordance with Article 28 of this Constitution be exercised by or on the authority of the Government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,946 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    No one should be surprised that Higgins has overstepped yet again and indeed constantly during his tenure - a look at his political history should tell you that was obvious, as it was when he ran for the second term despite previously saying he wouldn't.

    He's a champagne socialist, a hypocrite career politician who has been living off the taxpayer for decades. Nothing particularly unusual about that in Ireland I suppose, but we've rewarded it and his performance with the ultimate retirement plan - twice! That's on anyone who voted for him.

    The smug pontificating and poetry stuff is no excuse for him making pronouncements on topics he has no right to speak about. It's not his job or role and he should keep his mouth shut accordingly.

    We do have a track record of making poor choices when it comes to politics mind, so we all should learn from this really.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Jesus, you really are looking for any angle to criticise him on. He doesn’t critique government policy in any way.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    It doesn’t. But “the stickies” were Irish republican socialists. Not just socialists.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,857 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Anyone who stands for President will stand for something, and will have expressed this during their election campaign. How else can people decide which candidate to vote for? And why should the President abandon these views having been elected on the back of them?


    To me this raises the question of whether a popular vote is really the best way to choose a ceremonial head of state



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭tjhook


    "I think it is very important to realise from a Government policy point of view and no doubt Government is considering this, whatever protections they had were insufficient."

    That's not a criticism of Government policy? So what was he saying about Government policy? That it was just grand?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    is that a joke ?

    he was even criticising the government yesterday about the flooding in Cork



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Absolutely. He's been enabled by weak Taoisigh who won't put him back in his place. He has become emboldened now every time he crosses the line. Pompous little so and so with his equally haughty wife.

    A former President had to resign for less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭tjhook


    The president is supposed to be above politics. If that's no longer the case, there should be no problem with politicians criticising his record, calling him a "thundering disgrace", expressing a lack of confidence in him over his outbursts and positions.

    But of course some people won't care about the wider implications as long as he's voicing "their" message.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,857 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Even a scaled-down, Scandinavian-style monarchy?

    Anyway there are other options, like having the head of state chosen by parliament, or some type of 'council of state'. Or abolishing the office altogether and assume its responsibilities into the PM's office.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Good to see the media are severely criticising MDH latest outbursts and rants.

    Alison O Connor currently scarifying MDH on RTÉ. Long may it last.

    If he has any shred of dignity and self respect left, MDH should resign with immediate effect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,627 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    it certainly has been a chaotic, shambolic MDH presidency.

    Gaffe after gaffe after gaffe.

    The sooner the odious pompous champagne socialist is ferried off to the nursing home, the better for everyone.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Michael D Higgins is a beloved national figure. He’s immensely populate at home and abroad. This is the reality.


    All of your criticisms are spurious- he’s a champagne socialist, he’s pompous, he affects and accent and so on. I honestly wonder where this stems from, it’s so off base it’s bizarre.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The government are happy for him to remain, no real outcry for him to resign from anyone outside of yourself who is seething clearly. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,946 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    You went overboard a bit in the first paragraph - "beloved national figure"?? Says who? I think you may be confusing bemusement for adoration.

    He's a career politician who has been living off the taxpayer for decades. He is using the office of President to drag the country into diplomatic faux pas, and embarrassing the Government (not that they don't often deserve it) in the process or with other pronouncements outside of his remit.

    Being elected by "default" (because the others aren't even worth considering) isn't the same as being popular.

    He's been an awful President (and the bar isn't even that high). He shouldn't even still BE President at this stage, but political promises are worthless no matter how much poetry you write or pontificating you do.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    his has an extremely high approval rate.


    The rest of your diatribe is spurious criticism of a man you don’t like. It’s weird.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,627 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Indeed yes. Tough luck chief.

    Who did you vote for?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,250 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    maybe breaking convention is what we need. what's the point in having a national election for a stuffed shirt?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,617 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Push back starting. Our views weren't Pro American enough.

    The Paddy Cosgrave affair has startled the establishment here. They better fall into line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Not sure he's that beloved. He's getting plenty of criticism on social and national media.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Wow , if the biggest establishment hack ( which Alison o Connor is ) in the country is roasting Miggeldy, it really shows you how out of line he is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,627 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Is he now...even though the Taoiseach and Tanaiste rowed in behind his comments and Van Der Leyen was widely criticised and subsequently changed her tune.

    But but Twitter...Ye are making lots of lemonade now boys.

    Maybe have a look at the RTE headlines today and what's happening in Gaza to innocent civilians.

    Who did you vote for?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    The problem for Michael D is that he is the president and not a TD. If he wants to criticise the government he should have stayed as a TD. His role is more akin to the King/Queen of England than a more normal politician. If the King/Queen of England started/starts commenting on the government the monarchy will go the way of the dodo. It's why there was such concern about Charles getting the job(he has well known opinions) and why he has largely kept quiet since getting the job. The president of Ireland fills a very similar role minus the hereditary part.

    I know he has very high approval rating but it would be very hard for him not to have good rating. He doesn't have to make actual decisions unlike the government and TDs and councillors more generally.

    By making all these public pronouncements he sets a precedent that undermines the role of the president long term. If subsequent presidents continue in that vane at some point the role of president will come into conflict with the government of the day which will cause a constitutional crisis.

    It's not far fetched some of the alternatives to Michael D in the last election probably would have gone further that what he has done.

    The job of the president is to represent the people of Ireland and leave your personal opinions at home. If you can't do that the job of TD/councillor is that job you need to go for.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I mean, maybe? I would rather it was done as a proper consultative process though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,751 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Lookit horse , just do what you are paid to do , shake a few footballers hands, welcome sporting teams to Ireland, be an unctious ‘front of house man’.

    STFU about other International stuff, let the politickers sort that crud out.

    Walk the frikken dogs and don’t bring your leftie leanings into everything. Country is wedging you well to do that.

    Top Lad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭mvt


    Whatever about ending up with a constitutional crisis we are definitely in the middle of a moral crisis.

    This situation in Gaza is not going to end well for anyone & we all need to acknowledge this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Great post.

    He has lived high on the hog off the taxpayer for literally decades.

    He has a hugely inflated sense of self importance, it would be comical if it wasn’t so serious.

    On top of this, he has been an absolutely dreadful, divisive, arrogant president.

    People are sick of the sight of him and of the sound of that utterly contrived “Windsor by way of the Burren” pompous fake voice he uses.

    He has reduced the presidency to a pathetic soap box for his rants and outbursts, which are happening with concerning frequency as he ages.

    The sooner he and his wife get off the stage, the better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    So what? This idea that a few media hacks and a few dozen people on social media are the majority in this country is nonsense.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    A few people like yourself don't like him... meh

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,706 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    He's making our political leadership look very weak and wishy-washy.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,974 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Peter Casey convinced people on here that he was right for the office of President, solely because he used travelers as a dog whistle in the campaign.

    The thread on here about that election was full of people praising him for 'finally saying it' and a lot of the same voices are on here acting with righteous indignation at the current President overstepping the bounds of the office, in their view.

    Someone also said that if a future President said something that those of us who are fans of Michael D disagreed with, we'd be then complaining that he was stepping out of bounds so let me just respond to that. If a future President says for example that climate change is a myth or counter to the economic need of the country I won't complain about because they said it, I will complain about what they said. There is a massive difference here. One that I think those trying to use the minutiae of the role to counter his speaking out here are also doing, without either admitting it or maybe even recognizing it.

    Seeing people claim with certainty that people are sick of him actually makes me laugh a little because it was what was said at that last Presidential election (very vocally on here) and yet re won easily.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,854 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Very true. Both MM and LV afraid to deal with it.

    It should have been nipped in the bud when MDH gave that nauseating tribute to his comrade Fidel Castro - a great man for

    political assassinations,

    terrorism,

    forced labour camps,

    torture,

    abuse of prisoners,

    anti LGBT rights,

    censorship,

    restrictions on political opposition,

    capital punishment,

    and much more.

    Shameful stuff from the president of Ireland, who abuses that office as a personal soapbox for his personal rants and outbursts.

    MDH demeaned the office on that day and many others during his disastrous tenure.



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