Pizza ovens

the beer revolu · 25-08-2023 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023458#Comment_121023458

Something in between for me.

I put it on for the last bit of cooking so it's just barely melted.

Black Sheep · 25-08-2023 12:19pm

Got an Ooni Karu 12 that I’ve been enjoying, we’ve done a couple of cooks with it (Pictures in the dinner thread).

I’ve previously made pizza on a stone on my large Big Green Egg, and I am really surprised and impressed at how much more user friendly the Karu is. I was a bit sceptical, to be honest, but it is a little cleaner to work with, comes up to temperature much, much faster, and generally it’s well-designed and user friendly. A minor downside is that after cooking you basically have to leave it in situ to cool down before you can put it away? (I store it in the shed).

I use the Ooni app, and so far it has been more or less on target. A few posts back there’s a question from someone worried that they are finding it very sticky to work, and having problems with it… I agree with a comment made that humidity could have been a factor on the given day. If anything, I think the Ooni app runs towards the drier side though, in what’s suggested. I make bread and focaccia a fair bit and generally I use more oil in my recipes, and this can also be an alternative way to adding flour to make the dough easier to work with. It’s paradoxical, the oil doesn’t dry it out the way adding flour does, but it does make it stick in a different way. Oil generally won’t ruin a dough even if you did go a bit OTT with it, whereas adding flour can result in an excessively bready finished product if you overdo it.

Another bit of guidance I would offer is to make sure that you've got appropriate expectations around kneading. Dough will stick to your fingers and the kneading surface to an extent, for a good while into the kneading process. Usually as time goes on though it should become easier to work with and less sticky, in pursuit of that window-pane quality texture. So basically, make sure that you understand some stickiness on the fingers is inevitable, and make sure you're kneading long enough.

So far we’ve made the dough the evening before we intend to cook, and then put it in the fridge for an overnight cold first prove. An hour and a half before cooking, I get it out, divide it up into dough balls, knock back, and let them prove at room temperature for an hour.

Using one peel for now, and making it up swiftly on the peel to ensure it’s coming off cleanly.

In terms of mozzarella, interesting to read the comments above. We’ve used a lot of premium Irish offerings and an issue seems to be excessive moisture. It’s delicious, but in some ways a more processed, drier product would offer an advantage in that respect. The middle ground we’ve found is to tear the mozzarella and wring a little bit of the water out of it. You won’t get it all, nor would you want to, but what we’ve found is that when it cooks on the pizza it doesn’t release water the same way.

I think I would be happy to use a good fior di latte to be honest, that's what Bocco use on many of their pizzas at it seems to be a good compromise. I think I'm right in saying that's distinct from buffalo mozzarella, but I'm going off goggle.

boccers · 25-08-2023 1:17pm

It might have been mentioned already but Dunnes do a great Mozzarella block for €2 that I've used for Detroit and NY style pizza that is very low in moisture. You just grate it before putting on so its like the bagged stuff without the starch. Tesco have one too but I never found it as good and it is dearer.

adrian522 · 27-08-2023 6:12pm

Advice please: I seem to often get a ring of burn marks on the underside of the pizza near the crust, the rest of the base cooks ok, I'm thinking this could either be cooking too long (maybe increase the flame so the top cooks quicker) or the edge is just too heavy what ever way I'm scretching it out, any ideas?

PARlance · 27-08-2023 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035274#Comment_121035274

Not sure but excess flour generally leads to burning. Would the way you are shaping the dough be resulting in more flour being pushed out to the crust?

If you're shaping on a surface, it might help to lift up the dough and the flour should fall off.

adrian522 · 27-08-2023 9:42pm

Thanks, I generally lift up the dough when stretching it out but I'll see about making sure there is no excess flour there next time

StupidLikeAFox · 28-08-2023 12:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121024200#Comment_121024200

Fior di latte is far superior to buffalo imo if you are cooking it

tmh106 · 28-08-2023 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121036484#Comment_121036484

Where do you buy it, please? I have been using a buffalo that I get in Sheridans cheesemongers. It is lovely in salads, but I am not sure it is the best option for pizza - very moist and takes ages to dry out.

Black Sheep · 28-08-2023 2:55pm

I looked for fior di latte on Toons Bridge Dairy's website, but they only seem to have other variations of dairy cheese. I know Toons Bridge supply a lot of the higher-end pizzerias.

StupidLikeAFox · 01-09-2023 8:53pm

Fior di latte is just mozzarella made from cows milk instead of buffalo milk. You can get it all over:

wersal gummage · 02-09-2023 10:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884639#Comment_119884639

Did you buy one?

Currently thinking about it. Reviews seem to say they are great etc but not worth it... Getting a bit fed up with the ooni karu, takes about 40 mins to get up to temp and drops temp very quickly

Roberto_gas · 03-09-2023 5:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061943#Comment_121061943

why dont u get a koda ? if wood is not important

shanec1928 · 03-09-2023 5:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061943#Comment_121061943

No stuck with the Ooni still look every so often.

Black Sheep · 03-09-2023 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061943#Comment_121061943

What fuel source are you using?

My Ooni gets to temp a lot faster than that. I would have said within a 20 minutes, but I'll time it tonight.

Dough in the fridge cold proving as we speak.

Gloomtastic! · 03-09-2023 10:25am

How often does everyone you make pizza?

I could have it everyday but usually end up getting the oven out once a fortnight….

wersal gummage · 03-09-2023 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062648#Comment_121062648

Start off with charcoal (have good quality stuff), usually takes two fills of charcoal (by fill I don't mean I stuff the thing so there's no air circulating, I just mean a few good sized pieces in there), then at that point it'll usually get the stone up to about 280 sort of thing, then I start adding the hardwood, maybe the answer is to just use the wood from the start but it just rips through the wood at some speed, I've never gotten it up yo 450 sort of range in under about 40/45 mins, using it regularly for about 18 months now.

Also when it gets up to temp, I'll do two pizzas quickly, start adding more wood but it'll have dropped significantly in temp by the time we eat two pizzas and are ready to make a few more, maybe ten mins there

wersal gummage · 03-09-2023 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062228#Comment_121062228

Don't understand? To switch to gas?

The one I have will work with gas if I buy an adapter, but I prefer cooking with wood /charcoal.

Is there something I'm missing with the koda suggestion?

The gozney dome seems like it'll take the gas maybe 20 or 25 mins to heat up, I could then switch the gas off and burn a few pieces of wood I think.... Can't see anything about that on their website but have seen a few videos on YouTube of people operating that way.

The pizzas out of the current thing are fine, but I'm using an enormous amount of fuel (I feel) to do a few pizzas for family. The info I can find online suggests that the gozney is significantly less fuel efficient though!

wersal gummage · 03-09-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062231#Comment_121062231

Have you spotted any black Friday type deals? I might hold off until then and see if anything on offer.

Found a few discount codes online but all seem to be US only referral type things

wersal gummage · 03-09-2023 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062743#Comment_121062743

Yeah about the same, maybe once a week during the summer. I usually make the dough over 3 days so it's harder to plan ahead at times of the year for the weather, we don't have a covered area in the garden

Roberto_gas · 03-09-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063063#Comment_121063063

thats it..gas is easy to deal with..if you want wood fire pizzas then its a mute point.

Roberto_gas · 03-09-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063068#Comment_121063068

there is Irish referral now too 10% off !

Black Sheep · 03-09-2023 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063049#Comment_121063049

Ah, I was replying to Shane's post above.

But in fact you're having a similar issue.

I timed myself today and I got my Ooni karu 12 to 470 in under 20 minutes.

This is with good quality hardwood, and 10+ years of live fire experience, but I'm still impressed with how efficient it is.

The reason I was asking was to see what fuel sources was leading to the 40 minute duration.

Used a more processed / supermarket mozzarella today. Would have to acknowledge it led to a better pizza.

Roberto_gas · 04-09-2023 3:37pm

Bakes from the weekend ! Koda 12.

Tree · 04-09-2023 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062743#Comment_121062743

I would say most weeks (since long before we picked up the Ooni), the weather determines if it's indoor or outdoor cooking. Though lately I've added Flammkuchen to the mix, so it's reducing the pizza ratio...

Gloomtastic! · 04-09-2023 10:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121069412#Comment_121069412

Tarte flambé?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/tarte_flambe_95147

Tree · 05-09-2023 9:25am

That's the one (https://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/1107291216818673/Schneller-Flammkuchen.html gives a perfect base). I go with port salut as I can't find munster, and we have vegan speck as the OH is veggie (and sometimes it's handier to roll with it). A friend reckons a light grating of nutmeg elevates the creme fraiche but i've been too lazy as yet.

Letting the creme fraiche sit out makes it easier to spread, and grating the port salut from the fridge directly onto the Flammkuchen makes it a lot easier to manage.

wersal gummage · 29-09-2023 9:53am

A question for anyone making their dough with a mixer...

I'm following exact same steps, exact same ingredients, house is relatively stable temperature wise etc so no real changes...

Finding that some days the dough takes a few mins to come together, it sticks to the bottom /sides of mixer and eventually pulls away and forms a ball etc.... That seems fine to me.

Other times the dough rapidly /almost immediately forms a ball but after a few mins then begins to stick and after same amount of time as above (when dough goes from sticky to smooth) it has turned into a horrible sticky mess....

Just wondering if anyone has seen this and when dough forms a ball rapidly, after a few mins mixing should I stop it and take it out before it starts to stick? Am I over mixing it to make it sticky again? I basically don't understand why it sometimes immediately forms a ball and will be mixed around for several mins before then becoming a mess.

I'm making enough for 4 pizzas at around 65‰, usually leave it in the mixer for around 7 to 8 mins

topal · 29-09-2023 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171983#Comment_121171983

I'd aim for 60% hydration until you are comfortable with the process.

Are you using a digital scales to weigh your water and dry ingredients? You should be aiming for a dough that can be stretched and formed into a neat ball. 7 minutes in a stand mixer is too long IMO.

Comerman · 29-09-2023 10:17am

I aim for 63% and had the same issue but started adding the flour to the water instead of the other way around and it seems to be better

wersal gummage · 29-09-2023 10:21am

Yes using proper scales and all very precise, have made 70% and OK, but on balance over last year or two I've moved to 65 as find it works.

Just curious why the ingredients would somethings come together in under 30 seconds and just move around the bowl perfectly for a few mins, but on another day, doing exact same thing, the ingredients will tend to be sticky and take a few mins to come together (this second scenario is what normally happens).

I have the mixer on its lowest setting of 10 and, when thr mix is sticky, it takes about 7 to 8 mins before it forms a ball and pulls away from the sides and bottom, so can't see how I could mix it for less time. But as I say, every now and then it forms a ball immediately, pulls away from bottom and sides but after maybe 5 mins or so it begins to then turn into a sticky mess....

topal · 29-09-2023 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172095#Comment_121172095

Pausing to use a spatula to pull everything off the sides can help.

wersal gummage · 29-09-2023 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172115#Comment_121172115

Yes I do that!

Just curious why, every now and again, does the entire mix just immediately come together and stay together for a few mins before turning to glue!

squonk · 30-09-2023 9:12am

Do you follow the exact same prices each time though? Like as above, my general rule for any dough mix is water in the bowl when salt and maybe oil, then for and yeast on top. It could be down to the temp of your water even.

hargo · 30-09-2023 11:57am

Same thing for using Kenwood chef, so I now hand mix using slap and fold method and I thing the dough is better and i use a 70/ 72% mixture.

Roberto_gas · 30-09-2023 4:53pm

i would not overthink this…depending on when u add water flour etc in the mixer it may change it… i generally do 2-3 20 mins intervals of slap and fold post mixing and thats what matters at the end..smooth ball ready to cold ferment !

daveville30 · 01-10-2023 11:37am

There's a fella on YouTube makes dough without a mixer 60% hydration still does be a bit sticky.massimo think his name is

Tree · 22-10-2023 11:38am

Alright, so I tried poking through the thread. Short of buying an axe (and learning how to use it), where are people getting hardwood for their Ooni's?

The box I got with my Karu is gone, and the "kiln dried kindling" from the coop is spitty and sparky, and defintely not hardwood. We can use gas in the meantime (which himself prefers, but I really like hauling out the wood from time to time and making a "proper" fire).

Citizen Six · 23-10-2023 7:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270544#Comment_121270544

Have you tried a wood supplier that does small amounts? Where are you based? mulch.ie do small and large amounts of hardwood. But they don't always have everything in stock.

AmpMan · 23-10-2023 7:56am

I'm into my charcoal BBQs (I have 3...)

Was big into the wood fired ooni then I got the gas attachment to use over winter and I wouldn't go back to the wood.

Maybe if I was suck for gas but it just doesn't make a difference to the pizza. Wood is hardship for the sake of hardship.

The quality of wood makes such a difference .

Roberto_gas · 23-10-2023 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270544#Comment_121270544

With lots of other stresses of baking pies..wood fire management would be i would avoid..having used karu and now a koda it was the right call !

PARlance · 23-10-2023 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273290#Comment_121273290

Username checks out.

Tree · 23-10-2023 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273093#Comment_121273093

mulch.ie's website has been down for a few days, so not sure what they have.

In Limerick. I've emailed aroomoutside but i suspect I'll have to ring them. Everything on their website is for smoking rather than burning.

Roberto_gas · 23-10-2023 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275159#Comment_121275159

💨💨💨🙈🙈

Roberto_gas · 23-10-2023 7:40pm

Who likes pesto on their pie?

Gloomtastic! · 24-10-2023 5:03am

^ My daughter’s favourite topping, pesto with Chicken and Sweetcorn.

squonk · 27-10-2023 7:54am

Anyone tried the Odlums ‘00’ flour? I’m curious and I do have a pack but I’m not sure what they’re at Ray. In my local supermarket it’s €2.99 while the Caputo 00 is €2. Was going to try it out over the weekend but just interested to hear what others think of it.

Roberto_gas · 27-10-2023 12:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289213#Comment_121289213

pic i posted above of pesto pie is using odlums 00 ! Very good result. So go for it.

Not sure i would buy it now for 2.99 even with a free bowl with purchase of 2...i stocked up when it was 1.99 on offer at dunnes so worked out at 1.6 per kg. Caputo is a better bet value wise

Black Sheep · 27-10-2023 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289213#Comment_121289213

I've used it, it's fine. To be honest, I think I would prefer Italian branded alternatives, but not sure if it's just the branding and messaging.

Former Former Former · 27-10-2023 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289213#Comment_121289213

I've used it a few times, results have been perfect.

.red. · 27-10-2023 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290195#Comment_121290195

I think it is Italian? Pretty sure it says milled and packed in Italy on the packaging.

I tried it a few weeks ago as I spotted it when getting semolina. My dough didn't work out as well as previous attempts with the Caputo 00 but I'm pretty sure it was a chef error and not the flour.

I did think it was expensive tho at €2.99, I usually get the red Caputo 00 for €2.50 in an Italian deli near work.

I spotted some other 00 in another shop last week called Anima Verace but that was even more expensive at €3.50. I did get my best pizzas yet from that but that could just be coincidence as I'm getting more practice.

Pizza ovens

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