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Has President Higgins overstepped the mark?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,118 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    A few people like yourself don't like him... meh

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,731 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    He's making our political leadership look very weak and wishy-washy.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,074 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Peter Casey convinced people on here that he was right for the office of President, solely because he used travelers as a dog whistle in the campaign.

    The thread on here about that election was full of people praising him for 'finally saying it' and a lot of the same voices are on here acting with righteous indignation at the current President overstepping the bounds of the office, in their view.

    Someone also said that if a future President said something that those of us who are fans of Michael D disagreed with, we'd be then complaining that he was stepping out of bounds so let me just respond to that. If a future President says for example that climate change is a myth or counter to the economic need of the country I won't complain about because they said it, I will complain about what they said. There is a massive difference here. One that I think those trying to use the minutiae of the role to counter his speaking out here are also doing, without either admitting it or maybe even recognizing it.

    Seeing people claim with certainty that people are sick of him actually makes me laugh a little because it was what was said at that last Presidential election (very vocally on here) and yet re won easily.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,877 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Very true. Both MM and LV afraid to deal with it.

    It should have been nipped in the bud when MDH gave that nauseating tribute to his comrade Fidel Castro - a great man for

    political assassinations,

    terrorism,

    forced labour camps,

    torture,

    abuse of prisoners,

    anti LGBT rights,

    censorship,

    restrictions on political opposition,

    capital punishment,

    and much more.

    Shameful stuff from the president of Ireland, who abuses that office as a personal soapbox for his personal rants and outbursts.

    MDH demeaned the office on that day and many others during his disastrous tenure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,700 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    But their henchmen can say and do what they like behind the scenes.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Personally I thought Casey was a totally unsuitable candidate and the other 'dragon' Gallagher too. At the time I felt Michael D was the most suitable.

    The Irish Presidency under the 1937 Constitution was designed as a ceremonial role. Higgins is taking major, unlawful liberties with the role. Those are the facts. I'd say the same whether it was McAleese, Robinson, Hillary etc. His role is to be above politics. It's not the 'minutiae' of the role. It's the actual role. And making pronouncements on foreign policy before his government speaks is brazen and reckless.





  • From what I understand it was the constant criticizing of Israel that cost the Irish e3 work visas in the US



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Whether NATO or neutrality, one thing should be clear. Ireland needs to do more.

    Also, one can't really make a point for Irish neutrality if the British RAF is taking to the skies if a Russian warplane comes close to Irish airspace.

    I also think public opinion is too polarized on defence matters, thus no real political solution can be found which pleases all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭Rustyman101


    Champagne socialist of the highest order, pontificating on all his personal pet projects, sooner he's gone the better. Maybe just do away with the office.

    The direction democracy had taken in the last two years in this country is shocking, representing the will of the people means nothing to these so called "representatives" any more.

    Kite flying and NGOs is the order of the day unfortunately.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,748 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Could we see Higgins and the Ambassador debating the issues out on Prime Time ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Israeli Ambassador claims President is 'misinformed' (rte.ie)

    The Israeli Ambassador to Ireland has accused President Michael D Higgins of making misinformed comments after he accused Israel of breaking international law.

    Ms Erlich said "there is a strong feeling in Israel that there is an unconscious bias against Israel in Ireland."

    ------------------

    Do the Israelis even know what international law is anymore? They have cut off power and water to Gaza. They have blockaded Gaza. They bomb Gaza and kill civilians on a daily basis now. They instructed all the people of Northern Gaza to flee to the south. Flee to what exactly? They are 100% breaking international law. There was a doctor on the radio today saying he was operating on children without anaesthetic because they could not get supplies. The trucks they let in so far are a drop in the ocean in order to make the world think they are not breaking international law. Its a farce.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Reminiscent of Russia's response to calling Russia out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,877 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    On Russia, it seems MDH supports Putin’s war on Ukraine but won’t say it upfront.

    Another example of his utter unworthiness for the role of President.

    Source:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2023/10/19/why-dont-many-on-the-left-see-russia-as-a-colonial-power/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    So he hasn't condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine? Didn't waste any time with Israel.

    Old school Trotsky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yes that's it lads. Our president has never condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Ye are actually being childlike now. Good luck with the fake stuff

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Apparently he’s a fright to deal with in person , Beit staff in the Aras or even journalists in the know , view him as a diva of epic proportions



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    The irony of a far left socialist needing so many support staff is ironic

    Brings a new meaning to champagne socialism

    Some piggies are more equal than others



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,877 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    That’s widely known. Extremely rude and self entitled.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    President Higgins is clearly not grossly unpopular, no matter how much some people are keen to push that narrative.

    It's not an issue that is frequently polled, but this is a report from July last year that has him with an utterly outstanding 80% approval


    I would be someone who had a much higher opinion of him in the past and think his behaviour has become problematic, but I'm clearly in a minority and it's important to acknowledge that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Stephen Donnelly reiterating government backing on Higgins's remarks and saying the comments of the Israeli ambassador were inappropriate. I can guarantee you they have lots of internal polling on this issue in general.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    I didn’t know that but heard it quite recently



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    😂😂

    How did you not know if you heard it quite recently? From who exactly...ah never mind...

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    He is extremely popular because he has a legion of groupies in media and the NGO sector as well as academia who gush over his every utterance, this was the case long before he became president

    the smell has just gotten too strong lately so finally journalists have noticed his behaviour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Let's get Mickey D out and Bertie in.

    There's a man with the right moral fiber to be the country's figurehead.

    As for his comments as president, who really gives a f**k?

    It's a ceremonial role, I think he should be still allowed to speak with the voice of a mid-level Irish celebrity, as comes with the role.

    No harm to call out Isreal's war crimes, or FFG's efforts to undermine our neutrality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭jackal


    No mention of Hamas… you know… maybe freeing the 200 hostages they took after massacring 1400 others no? Would they not be the reason for the above actions that Israel has given since the start of this thing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    He was highly critical of the Hamas attack immediately after it. I believe he said it was revolting.

    A quick google...

    "Any attacks on innocent civilians, such as those horrific scenes witnessed at the Supernova music festival and elsewhere, are deeply reprehensible"

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Coveney is now rowing in behind the president after the Israel ambassadors attempt to silence him.

    Israel-Gaza war: Israel ambassador's comments about Irish president 'unhelpful' - BBC News

    Irish Enterprise Minister Simon Coveney told RTÉ that the "pointed" comments by Ms Erlich were not helpful.

    "I think Michael D Higgins has reflected the view of many in Ireland," the former foreign affairs minister added.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭jackal


    I was replying the the part you wrote, in your post:

    Do the Israelis even know what international law is anymore? They have cut off power and water to Gaza. They have blockaded Gaza. They bomb Gaza and kill civilians on a daily basis now. They instructed all the people of Northern Gaza to flee to the south. Flee to what exactly? They are 100% breaking international law. There was a doctor on the radio today saying he was operating on children without anaesthetic because they could not get supplies. The trucks they let in so far are a drop in the ocean in order to make the world think they are not breaking international law. Its a farce.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    You want me to condemn the Hamas attacks too, is it?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭jackal


    Yes, ‘this thing’ I am referring to and which I quoted started approx 2 weeks ago in response to the mass murder and kidnappings of Israelis on Oct 7th by the militants of the elected govt of Gaza. Not referring to the whole Palestine/Israel ‘thing’.



  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭jackal


    No I am asking have I missed the part where the hostages have been freed? Because Israel were quite clear that they would not be switching back on the water and electricity etc until they were?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    So Israel are more than willing to break international law and make the citizens of Gaza suffer/die until the terrorists hand back the hostages. Do you support that?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    Foreign policy is government responsibility. Look at what happened to Cosgrave… choppy waters and rightly or wrongly we rely hugely on US FDI. Feck that up and it’s the 80’s all over again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    It looks to me like it's that close relationship with corporate America which is driving a lot of the insidious move away from neutrality.

    I think we're now on the global military map because of the amount of IT infrastructure located here.

    As much as I depend on that same corporate America for my livelihood, I don't want Irish kids sent to war to keep them happy.

    We should treasure our position as a neutral country and do all we can to maintain it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    As much as I depend on that same corporate America for my livelihood, I don't want Irish kids sent to war to keep them happy.

    This doesn't happen to anyone. It is a complete fiction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Not now but it will.

    FFG clearly can't wait to sign us up for all sorts of defense treaties.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    His comments are entirely consistent with Irish foreign policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,257 ✭✭✭Augme


    The only people against him speaking out are a very small minority who never liked him anyway. He's absolute right to speak out and support the government's position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭jackal


    Just to be clear, you or our very opinionated ceremonial head of state calling what Israel is doing a violation of international law does not make it so. There have been very, very few successfully prosecuted instances in reality. It’s nothing more than a perceived gotcha that I’m sick of hearing to be honest.

    Power to end the Gaza citizens situation lies in their own elected governments hands, by releasing the hostages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Oh boo hoo, you don't like hearing the term 'war crime'.

    Maybe that's the answer to this...

    I'll get Isreal and Hamas on the phone and ask them to stop killing children, for fear your delicate sensibilities might be offended.

    That's right up there with the most self-indulgent bs I've ever heard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Give me a break.

    I'll use a USA organisation to clear it up for you.

    What International Law Has to Say About the Israel-Hamas War | Council on Foreign Relations (cfr.org)

    #1 Hamas

    The atrocities Hamas committed against Israel on October 7 have sent shockwaves around the world. Hamas’s killing of at least 1400 Israeli civilians (including children) during its surprise attack on Israeli territory violated provisions of international humanitarian law that are designed to protect civilians and their property during war.

    #2 Israel

    Israel has fundamental legal obligations to abide by during its campaign against Hamas. Heavily charged statements by some Israeli officials need to be separated from sound legal policy. In brief, Israel must meet several standards:

    • It must not use starvation (including deprivation of food, water, and other essentials for survival) of Gaza’s civilian population as a weapon of war against Hamas or for any reason.
    • It must take every possible step to target only Hamas militants and their military infrastructure, and to minimize civilian casualties and the destruction of civilian infrastructure. The Israeli air and artillery campaign, as well as its ground warfare, must be guided by the immutable legal principles of humanity, distinction, proportionality, and military necessity.
    • It must allow for the return of displaced civilians after the conflict. While a temporary evacuation of civilians from a theater of combat can be legally requested, it would be unlawful to permanently displace the civilian population from their homes. The circumstances in Gaza today create enormous hardship for hundreds of thousands of Palestinian civilians, and Israel should take measures to ameliorate these difficult conditions. The visits of U.S. President Joe Biden and U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken to the Middle East this week focused in part on what Israel and other nations and organizations can do to address the humanitarian plight of Palestinians in Gaza.

    They have already broken bullet #1.

    As the surgeon in Gaza said this morning, when the generators stop working, the ICU patients die.

    Whether anyone in Hamas or Israel is prosecuted for war crimes or not is a totally different question.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,978 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    I can’t remember the name of the randomer who came second to Miggeldy the last time but he got about 20% of the vote on basically an anti-traveller ticket.

    If we are happy that the president can rant on his favourite topics without reference to Govt policy we will reap what we sow eventually. Just because we mostly agree with him now doesn’t justify what he did. He is clearly becoming more conscious of his legacy. I think we will live to regret it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Like what? What defense treaties would have forced Irish soldiers to go anywhere? Also, if they really couldn't wait they could just do it tomorrow, it's entirely within their purview.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    While not a formal defense treaty, how many countries got pulled into the 'war on terror'?

    As for them doing it tomorrow, I'm quite sure they would. It's imperative this becomes an election issue and a firm no is given to ending Irish neutrality.

    It's not what people want. FFG out.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    None who didn't want to. Ireland were in Afghanistan as part of the UN mission there and very few NATO members joined the Iraq mission.

    They obviously wouldn't because they haven't and have shown no indication they are going to.

    This is just the opposite side of the coin from "everyone hates MDH". Discussions rooted in actual reality would be better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I see Van Der Leyen is getting attacked for her stance from all angles.

    EU chief 'to engage' with staff over Middle East stance (rte.ie)

    European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has written to staff saying she is "ready to engage, and to listen to your concerns" over the conflict in the Middle East, following a letter signed by over 800 Commission officials last week protesting against her allegedly unequivocal support for Israel.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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