Solar panels at home, worth it?

maddness · 22-10-2023 2:50pm #1

I’m sure this has been asked before but I can’t find a relevant thread so here goes.

I am wondering about getting solar panels fitted at home and am struggling to find any real world feedback on potential savings so thought I’d ask here. If I was to do it I would go all in and get two EV’s to replace our ice cars and just wondered if anyone has done the same and has it been as good as I imagine it might be? I know there are many variables but am just curious about the whole experience.

AndyBoBandy · 22-10-2023 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058319170/solar-panels-at-home-worth-it

From April to July all my driving was covered by Solar excess..

so for about 4 months I didn’t pay to charge my car (assuming you don’t count the initial outlay for the Solar PV)

My advice: install the biggest system your roof will fit.

Gumbo · 22-10-2023 3:32pm

Yes. Get as big an array as possible.

then consider battery and divertor V FIT.

Don’t bank on it fully charging your cart for all your needs and see if the system works. Then any charge is a bonus.

My system is set up so it fills the battery then the hot water and very little excess after that.

youcancallmeal · 22-10-2023 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270937#Comment_121270937

How much was your solar setup, do you have batteries to store excess as well?

Jonathan · 22-10-2023 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058319170/solar-panels-at-home-worth-it

Lots of info over in the Renewable Energies forum.

https://www.boards.ie/categories/renewable-energies

djan · 22-10-2023 4:56pm

People will be quick to mention how their bills have gone down and are charging for "free" but the key is to look at the total ROI given the panels lifetime and any maintenance and then make the decision. From what I've seen from people's sums in Ireland, unless you can diy a substantial part it won't really be worthwhile.

burtner · 22-10-2023 5:08pm

Solar is a no brainer in sunny country. I have a small array and would NOT recommend solar in Ireland, There are many many days when production is as low as 2% of rated or even less , It does of course give 100% some days a year but not enough to make it worth it. You need to over spec considerably to make it work.

maddness · 22-10-2023 5:36pm

Thanks for the replies. Not sure if we will go ahead but have someone coming during the week to give us a quote.

I’ve considered an EV plenty of times over the past year or so and am still on the fence!

ted1 · 22-10-2023 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271318#Comment_121271318

I’d disagree , people are seen 7-8 year pay backs especially with batteries.

my parents top up their battery during the boost rate and haven’t had to import during day rate at all , with a 5 kW system they were exporting 3.1KW at lunch time today.

allinthehead · 22-10-2023 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271318#Comment_121271318

A properly sized system will pay for itself in about seven years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271351#Comment_121271351

I also have a small array and would encourage anyone who can afford it to go ahead especially now with 0% Vat.

joe1303l · 22-10-2023 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271455#Comment_121271455

You don’t need Solar PV to make an EV worthwhile if you charge at home on night rate electricity. Even if you’ve a substantial Solar PV system, it won’t really charge your car during the day if you’re using the car to commute to work.

Fitz II · 22-10-2023 5:51pm

My own modest system has a 6-8 year ROI and that seems to be fairly standard. If you can charge your car during the day, that's great, but a lot of people don't have their car at their house during the day, and if they do they don't drive much. Mine about halves my electricity bill and I top the batteries during the night rate for the morning load, it improves the BER on the house too and increases resale value, so I think in general its a good thing, but unless you have a lot of roof space and a load of batteries you not going be living off the grid.

RoboRat · 22-10-2023 5:51pm

I have a 7.4kwp south facing array with a 10kw battery. I got it installed in July 2022 and it cost €12,400 after grant.

Within 13 months, it had paid 1/4 of the install cost through energy savings and FIT payments, and that was before I got an EV. It's ooking like it'll pay for itself within 4 years now and my bills are around 1/10 of what they were annually.

I got a loan, but I worked out the average cost of electricity per month, and adjusted the loan so there would be very little variance compared to what I was already paying. Electricity prices went up and I actually ended up paying less monthly.

I definitely recommend getting it done.

djan · 22-10-2023 6:50pm

Fair play to those getting the 8ish year returns, just shows how many variables are involved and maybe the tech/price has improved too . I will say the some of the ones I know of were installed a fair few years ago and had returns of 15+ years, so really depends on how much you can put on roof and usage amounts and patterns. Just be careful and do the sums in detail first and go from there but it's not a guarantee as sometimes made out.

Gumbo · 22-10-2023 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271318#Comment_121271318

No maintenance on PV panels. Maybe you are mixing up the older thermal evacuated tubes which require glycell changes every other year?

Gumbo · 22-10-2023 7:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271717#Comment_121271717

The systems were cheaper years ago so ROI was lower. Again, you mention the word “fair few years ago” so maybe these were the evacuated tubes that only heated water?

For example, I installed a 4.7kw array with 5.2 kWh battery and eddi in 2017 and nett cost to me was €3700. Not repeatable today of course.

This week my dad is getting a 4kw array, 5 kWh battery and eddi installed for €8500. After grant that will be 6,230. ROI on that will be very quick IMO.

eagerv · 22-10-2023 7:24pm

We have a modest 4kWp system and a 4 kWh battery.

Reckon 8 to 10 year payback. But don’t really care because of the value of enjoying it… nothing better than seeing 40 km to 80 km surplus going into car….😊

circadian · 22-10-2023 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271318#Comment_121271318

Well that's not true. I'm looking at 6 years payback. Our long summer days are epic and if you can export a decent amount then the ROI gets better. With a battery I charge overnight on the boost rate and run the house for a fair bit of the winter days. My bill for the year will be probably just under a grand for this year where it would probably be closer to €3,500 or more.

joe1303l · 22-10-2023 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271795#Comment_121271795

I’ve recently got some proposals from 3 different providers for a large roof mounted commercial system. They all mentioned the PV panels may need to be cleaned 1-2 times per year for optimal performance. Would this fall under maintenance ?

eagerv · 22-10-2023 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272082#Comment_121272082

Most modern panels are cleaned by rain. But in a long dry period they do get quite dusty and probably loose some efficiency. In the summer I use to fire up a high powered hose on to roof which did keep them clean. But there is probably an advantage having surface mounted panels where you could give them an easy clean with a soft long handled brush.

joe1303l · 22-10-2023 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272175#Comment_121272175

Ground mount would also have that advantage if you had space in your garden rather than roof mounted.

con747 · 22-10-2023 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272082#Comment_121272082

People here have panels for more than 10 years and never had to clean them with the amount of rain we get. Maybe the providers are looking for more income in the future coming back to "clean" them for you. Mine are up nearly 2 years in the sticks and I haven't seen any loss of power without cleaning them. You will find much more information here https://www.boards.ie/categories/renewable-energies

orangerhyme · 22-10-2023 9:18pm

Does anyone know how many domestic solar panel arrays are being installed per year Ireland?

I don't mean new houses that come with them, or solar farms or commercial premises. Just private houses that add them.

Gumbo · 22-10-2023 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272082#Comment_121272082

I haven’t cleaned mine once since 2017. Peak performance (generation) and peak kw spike hasn’t dropped since.

So no maintenance.

djan · 22-10-2023 9:21pm

Honestly this may be it and then my bad for the misinformation. I was surprised myself by them mentioning this and while they said it was PV solar, seems like they used the wrong terminology as the returns on those and maintenance allude to it being the different set up you mentioned. Thanks for clearing that up!

SouthWesterly · 22-10-2023 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271351#Comment_121271351

I saved 500 in my first year. Electric Costs have gone up so I save more now. I was also able to charge my car all summer. All from a 3.2kw solar array

eagerv · 22-10-2023 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272232#Comment_121272232

Yep. A pal has a 8kW ground system in a pure south direction. Cannot believe what they produce. Would love to have similar..😊

Ginger83 · 22-10-2023 9:53pm

Our 8kWp system has generated over 5000kWh since late February and 3.2kWp faces northwest

Gumbo · 22-10-2023 9:56pm

@unkel Your thread prayers have been answered 😂😂

unkel · 22-10-2023 10:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271351#Comment_121271351

That's a common misconception. Ireland is actually rather good for solar PV

The Netherlands have by far the highest number of solar PV panels on private homes per capita. And their PV is 20% worse than Ireland. And before you mention the fiscal regime, they have net metering over there. Our system is almost as good with our generous feed in tariff. In some ways better if you have cheap night rate.

But of course the production of solar PV on a rainy winter's day in the week before Christmas is near zero

batistuta9 · 22-10-2023 10:08pm

What size area are you talking for these systems?

eagerv · 22-10-2023 10:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272457#Comment_121272457

Thankfully winter is short in Ireland. My wife still managed a few kWh into her car today. In 8 weeks the days will be getting longer🤣

AndyBoBandy · 22-10-2023 10:10pm

I paid €8,800 for my system 2 years ago (to the week), it’s 5.78kWp, 5kWh battery & Eddi Diverter…

To date I’ve generated 8MWh (8,000kWh). So if you take the day rate I pay for electricity* (€0.44/kWh), that means I’ve generated around €3,500 worth of electricity.

*yes if I didn’t have Solar PV, a lot of the usage I have during the day would have been pushed to the cheaper night rate at roughly half the cost of day rate.. so actual savings to me will be below that €3,500 figure, but regardless I’ve still generated 8,000kWh during daylight hours which today is worth about €3.5k

Ive also been paid deemed export for exporting around 4-5 times what I’ve actually exported, and to date have received around €500 in deemed export. (I know this will end soon once I get my smart meter installed, but what they paid me is already locked in…)

so 2 years in and I’ve recouped around €4K of my initial €8,800 outlay, so I reckon in about 2.5 years I should break even, and maybe a little longer if the price of electricity drops…

Anyone saying Solar PV will not work in Ireland firmly belongs in the same camp as the ‘EV’s will not work in Ireland’ brigade.. and that’s the ‘Ignore Camp’ because they haven’t got a clue what they are talking about…

I am also lucky in that the EV sits on the driveway most days, and someone also said in that situation someone ‘doesn’t do big mileage’, but I do 25,000km a year or 500km a week on average… not sure if that’s considered ‘big’ mileage or not…?

unkel · 22-10-2023 10:19pm

@Gumbo - "The systems were cheaper years ago so ROI was lower."

Actually that's not quite the case! The systems were cheaper for sure, but the savings were much smaller as there was no feed in tariff. To give you an example I work from home, so I can charge my car from my PV. Let's say on an average day I had an excess of 22kWh, this means after charging losses I could get 20kWh into the car

Now I have a smart meter. I charge the car at night at 5c / kWh, costing me 22*5 = €1.10. During the day I export those 22kWh straight to the grid for which my provider pays me 27c, so 22*27 = €5.94. So per day I am €4.84 better off than before I had a smart meter, just in one day

This system is so generous that my total electricity bill for the year will be negative. That includes all my electricity use, all my water heating, soom room heating and fueling both my eletric cars.

Also electricity is a lot more expensive for most people than it was a few years ago, this shortens the ROI substantially.

con747 · 22-10-2023 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272480#Comment_121272480

A lot of pub talk being quoted by some posters who have no idea of the benefits of solar pv or the roi.

eagerv · 22-10-2023 10:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272518#Comment_121272518

I am in a pub atm 🤣 and Solar is one of my better investments. It gives me pleasure, adds to the value of my house and even though I export almost zero makes my electricity bills very small. A good night rate makes it a no brainer. (Hate that phrase🤣)

RoboRat · 22-10-2023 10:43pm

Just over 20kwh produced today. 9.91mwh generated in just under 15 months. In the same time period, 3.8mwh was fed into the grid with a value of around €920 in credit. My total consumption since I got the PV installed has been 12.4mwh and all my heating and hot water is electric via air 2 water.

22-10-2023 11:02pm

Had 8 panels, totalling 3500 ( we are not high users) installed in June plus a battery for £6500. The battery is fully charged most days and runs out in the small hours most nights. Since June we have on average imported no more than 1/5th of our total usage from the grid, and have exported more so that our first bill since installation was less than our income from the same period. Even now in darker days we are usually producing at least half of our usage. So we are saving / earning something like £600 per year on projection, a 10 year payback. If I'd known it was this good I'd have purchased years ago ... but I'd have bought a bigger battery.

Alkers · 22-10-2023 11:57pm

Are you and/or the car home during the day, when there is daylight for the panels to generate electricity?

How much electricity do you use per year?

How much do you drive?

What sort of house do you live in? Own driveway? Roof type and orientation?

Some questions to ask yourself to inform your decision. It makes great sense for some people, less so for others.

One word of caution is there is some amount of rip off companies out there at the moment and I'd say 75% of people pay significantly over the odds for the system they buy.

chuck eastwood · 23-10-2023 2:03am

You don't have solar panels do you ?

Heroditas · 23-10-2023 6:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272250#Comment_121272250

About 11,500 applications have been made to SEAI in the first half of this year for solar PV grants which is a good indicator of numbers installed.

It was about 7,500 applications for the same timeframe last year.

MojoMaker · 23-10-2023 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272765#Comment_121272765

On this topic - who's prepared to put up some solid recommendations for installers in the 25% 'honest, fair, and at a sensible price' bracket?

AndyBoBandy · 23-10-2023 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273263#Comment_121273263

Like this;

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058243236/solar-pv-boards-members-installer-information

23-10-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271795#Comment_121271795

How about replacing inverter / Battery in 5 - 10 years?

I wonder how much this is, Id say the battery is expensive and then the cost of labour, so in 5 - 10 yrs would have to invest another x amount

Anybody know how much these are incl labour?

Source: https://www.bordgaisenergy.ie/home/solar-energy-guide#disadvantages

Solar energy has low maintenance costs

Solar energy systems have no moving parts like wind turbines, which means that wear and tear are eliminated. The inverter and the batteries are the only components that may require to be changed in about 5-10 years.

23-10-2023 11:50am

Storm damage (if a tile flew off and hit the panels) could impact ROI

Do the systems need a service every year?

It is recommended to clean the panels as well, depends on where panels are tho.. e.g. if they a likely to get covered in leaves etc...

Some roofs are very low hanging, so would be more susceptible to storm damage and build up of dirt

slave1 · 23-10-2023 12:03pm

You're speculating and asking drama pub talk queries, why not listen to those with real world experience going back the years.

Panels do not need cleaning, if you want to clean them then fire ahead but not necessary

No servicing required

I have not heard of anyone needing to replace a faulty out of warranty PV inverter, indeed there is a healthy used market for those increasing their inverter capacity

Battery replacement, here we go again, same rubbish query we hear on the EV forum, my batteries are rock solid a few years in and expected to be at 80% capacity after 6000 cycles so will pretty much never need replacing for at least 15 years and the 80% capacity even then will be grand for what I need

Storm damage, what about a flying tile smashing a house window, or parked car, or person? Again, never heard of this happening

23-10-2023 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273801#Comment_121273801

Wow, defensive hey! Whats all this about pub talk lol

I quoted Borg Gais where they say they might have to be replaced in 5 - 10 years..

Good for you if your batteries are fine, but that might not be the case for everyone

"Storm damage, what about a flying tile smashing a house window, or parked car, or person? Again, never heard of this happening"

Are you for real, happens every year.. few years ago several cars were damaged in my estate where tiles fell off roof and smashed windscreen or dented bonnet! Think you can be safely ignored with just that 1 sentence :)

slave1 · 23-10-2023 12:30pm

Context, never heard of it (flying tile) damaging Solar Panels.

And I am not being defensive, just addressing a post, if you are taking a quote from Bord Gais website then good luck

23-10-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273906#Comment_121273906

Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, and you do realise tile was an example it can be anything :)

if your so happy with the system why are you wasting your time defending it on a forum?

I am genuinely interested in solar panels and just trying to understand the pitfalls, ppl Posting these questions are just trying to find out, to me asking about batteries, inverters, maintenance, service, etc are all reasonable questions.

tbh I would rate bord Gais over some randomer on the internet :)

It could be that anyone who has had a bad experience with it stays away as they feel

embarrassed cause they defended it so much On the past :)

haha just messing with ya…

orangerhyme · 23-10-2023 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272960#Comment_121272960

"In 2022 the SEAI received 16,819 applications to the Domestic Solar PV programme, which resulted in grant support for 10,017 homes, at a cost of €24.4m and a total installed capacity of 46.5 MW. This indicates an average installation size of 4.6kW. This is a huge increase on the numbers from 2021 when 4,077 homes were supported, and 16.3 MW installed."

So 10,000 installed in 2022 and it might increase 50% this year.

I'd imagine it's increasing every year with bills increasing and price of solar dropping and removal of VAT.

Apparently 1m houses in Ireland can have rooftop solar.

50,000 houses already have solar.

So 50,000 installations a year X 20 = 1m

I still don't see that many just from my own observation.

I think schools, both primary and secondary, would be ideal for solar as they've low energy use with big roofs and all the energy is used in daylight hours.

Although they're closed in summer months but that can be sold to the grid I guess.

AndyBoBandy · 23-10-2023 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273826#Comment_121273826

Good for you if your batteries are fine, but that might not be the case for everyone

The thing about the batteries is they won't just suddenly stop working... they'll gradually degrade away to the point where they might no longer fit the needs of the owner, and therefore be replaced with a new battery, but for some they might be more than happy to continue using a battery in 10-15 years when it might only have 40%-60% of its original usable capacity available... And when the guy above gets his new battery to replace the degraded one, the degraded one won't be worth nothing... It will still have value (and use to someone).

The same logic above would apply to EV's too and the "what happens in 10 years when you need to replace the battery" question that's incessantly raised time and time again.... The batteries (in the vast majority of cases) won't just simply stop and no longer work.., they'll degrade away, but will still chug on for many many years... and someone buying a 500km range car today might be more than happy to still have 200km range in it in 20+ years... Batteries will outlast the cars.

Solar panels at home, worth it?

Comments