Solar panels at home, worth it?

eagerv · 22-10-2023 10:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272457#Comment_121272457

Thankfully winter is short in Ireland. My wife still managed a few kWh into her car today. In 8 weeks the days will be getting longer🤣

AndyBoBandy · 22-10-2023 10:10pm

I paid €8,800 for my system 2 years ago (to the week), it’s 5.78kWp, 5kWh battery & Eddi Diverter…

To date I’ve generated 8MWh (8,000kWh). So if you take the day rate I pay for electricity* (€0.44/kWh), that means I’ve generated around €3,500 worth of electricity.

*yes if I didn’t have Solar PV, a lot of the usage I have during the day would have been pushed to the cheaper night rate at roughly half the cost of day rate.. so actual savings to me will be below that €3,500 figure, but regardless I’ve still generated 8,000kWh during daylight hours which today is worth about €3.5k

Ive also been paid deemed export for exporting around 4-5 times what I’ve actually exported, and to date have received around €500 in deemed export. (I know this will end soon once I get my smart meter installed, but what they paid me is already locked in…)

so 2 years in and I’ve recouped around €4K of my initial €8,800 outlay, so I reckon in about 2.5 years I should break even, and maybe a little longer if the price of electricity drops…

Anyone saying Solar PV will not work in Ireland firmly belongs in the same camp as the ‘EV’s will not work in Ireland’ brigade.. and that’s the ‘Ignore Camp’ because they haven’t got a clue what they are talking about…

I am also lucky in that the EV sits on the driveway most days, and someone also said in that situation someone ‘doesn’t do big mileage’, but I do 25,000km a year or 500km a week on average… not sure if that’s considered ‘big’ mileage or not…?

unkel · 22-10-2023 10:19pm

@Gumbo - "The systems were cheaper years ago so ROI was lower."

Actually that's not quite the case! The systems were cheaper for sure, but the savings were much smaller as there was no feed in tariff. To give you an example I work from home, so I can charge my car from my PV. Let's say on an average day I had an excess of 22kWh, this means after charging losses I could get 20kWh into the car

Now I have a smart meter. I charge the car at night at 5c / kWh, costing me 22*5 = €1.10. During the day I export those 22kWh straight to the grid for which my provider pays me 27c, so 22*27 = €5.94. So per day I am €4.84 better off than before I had a smart meter, just in one day

This system is so generous that my total electricity bill for the year will be negative. That includes all my electricity use, all my water heating, soom room heating and fueling both my eletric cars.

Also electricity is a lot more expensive for most people than it was a few years ago, this shortens the ROI substantially.

con747 · 22-10-2023 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272480#Comment_121272480

A lot of pub talk being quoted by some posters who have no idea of the benefits of solar pv or the roi.

eagerv · 22-10-2023 10:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272518#Comment_121272518

I am in a pub atm 🤣 and Solar is one of my better investments. It gives me pleasure, adds to the value of my house and even though I export almost zero makes my electricity bills very small. A good night rate makes it a no brainer. (Hate that phrase🤣)

RoboRat · 22-10-2023 10:43pm

Just over 20kwh produced today. 9.91mwh generated in just under 15 months. In the same time period, 3.8mwh was fed into the grid with a value of around €920 in credit. My total consumption since I got the PV installed has been 12.4mwh and all my heating and hot water is electric via air 2 water.

22-10-2023 11:02pm

Had 8 panels, totalling 3500 ( we are not high users) installed in June plus a battery for £6500. The battery is fully charged most days and runs out in the small hours most nights. Since June we have on average imported no more than 1/5th of our total usage from the grid, and have exported more so that our first bill since installation was less than our income from the same period. Even now in darker days we are usually producing at least half of our usage. So we are saving / earning something like £600 per year on projection, a 10 year payback. If I'd known it was this good I'd have purchased years ago ... but I'd have bought a bigger battery.

Alkers · 22-10-2023 11:57pm

Are you and/or the car home during the day, when there is daylight for the panels to generate electricity?

How much electricity do you use per year?

How much do you drive?

What sort of house do you live in? Own driveway? Roof type and orientation?

Some questions to ask yourself to inform your decision. It makes great sense for some people, less so for others.

One word of caution is there is some amount of rip off companies out there at the moment and I'd say 75% of people pay significantly over the odds for the system they buy.

chuck eastwood · 23-10-2023 2:03am

You don't have solar panels do you ?

Heroditas · 23-10-2023 6:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272250#Comment_121272250

About 11,500 applications have been made to SEAI in the first half of this year for solar PV grants which is a good indicator of numbers installed.

It was about 7,500 applications for the same timeframe last year.

MojoMaker · 23-10-2023 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272765#Comment_121272765

On this topic - who's prepared to put up some solid recommendations for installers in the 25% 'honest, fair, and at a sensible price' bracket?

AndyBoBandy · 23-10-2023 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273263#Comment_121273263

Like this;

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058243236/solar-pv-boards-members-installer-information

rockdrummer4 · 23-10-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271795#Comment_121271795

How about replacing inverter / Battery in 5 - 10 years?

I wonder how much this is, Id say the battery is expensive and then the cost of labour, so in 5 - 10 yrs would have to invest another x amount

Anybody know how much these are incl labour?

Source: https://www.bordgaisenergy.ie/home/solar-energy-guide#disadvantages

Solar energy has low maintenance costs

Solar energy systems have no moving parts like wind turbines, which means that wear and tear are eliminated. The inverter and the batteries are the only components that may require to be changed in about 5-10 years.

rockdrummer4 · 23-10-2023 11:50am

Storm damage (if a tile flew off and hit the panels) could impact ROI

Do the systems need a service every year?

It is recommended to clean the panels as well, depends on where panels are tho.. e.g. if they a likely to get covered in leaves etc...

Some roofs are very low hanging, so would be more susceptible to storm damage and build up of dirt

slave1 · 23-10-2023 12:03pm

You're speculating and asking drama pub talk queries, why not listen to those with real world experience going back the years.

Panels do not need cleaning, if you want to clean them then fire ahead but not necessary

No servicing required

I have not heard of anyone needing to replace a faulty out of warranty PV inverter, indeed there is a healthy used market for those increasing their inverter capacity

Battery replacement, here we go again, same rubbish query we hear on the EV forum, my batteries are rock solid a few years in and expected to be at 80% capacity after 6000 cycles so will pretty much never need replacing for at least 15 years and the 80% capacity even then will be grand for what I need

Storm damage, what about a flying tile smashing a house window, or parked car, or person? Again, never heard of this happening

rockdrummer4 · 23-10-2023 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273801#Comment_121273801

Wow, defensive hey! Whats all this about pub talk lol

I quoted Borg Gais where they say they might have to be replaced in 5 - 10 years..

Good for you if your batteries are fine, but that might not be the case for everyone

"Storm damage, what about a flying tile smashing a house window, or parked car, or person? Again, never heard of this happening"

Are you for real, happens every year.. few years ago several cars were damaged in my estate where tiles fell off roof and smashed windscreen or dented bonnet! Think you can be safely ignored with just that 1 sentence :)

slave1 · 23-10-2023 12:30pm

Context, never heard of it (flying tile) damaging Solar Panels.

And I am not being defensive, just addressing a post, if you are taking a quote from Bord Gais website then good luck

rockdrummer4 · 23-10-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273906#Comment_121273906

Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, and you do realise tile was an example it can be anything :)

if your so happy with the system why are you wasting your time defending it on a forum?

I am genuinely interested in solar panels and just trying to understand the pitfalls, ppl Posting these questions are just trying to find out, to me asking about batteries, inverters, maintenance, service, etc are all reasonable questions.

tbh I would rate bord Gais over some randomer on the internet :)

It could be that anyone who has had a bad experience with it stays away as they feel

embarrassed cause they defended it so much On the past :)

haha just messing with ya…

orangerhyme · 23-10-2023 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272960#Comment_121272960

"In 2022 the SEAI received 16,819 applications to the Domestic Solar PV programme, which resulted in grant support for 10,017 homes, at a cost of €24.4m and a total installed capacity of 46.5 MW. This indicates an average installation size of 4.6kW. This is a huge increase on the numbers from 2021 when 4,077 homes were supported, and 16.3 MW installed."

So 10,000 installed in 2022 and it might increase 50% this year.

I'd imagine it's increasing every year with bills increasing and price of solar dropping and removal of VAT.

Apparently 1m houses in Ireland can have rooftop solar.

50,000 houses already have solar.

So 50,000 installations a year X 20 = 1m

I still don't see that many just from my own observation.

I think schools, both primary and secondary, would be ideal for solar as they've low energy use with big roofs and all the energy is used in daylight hours.

Although they're closed in summer months but that can be sold to the grid I guess.

AndyBoBandy · 23-10-2023 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273826#Comment_121273826

Good for you if your batteries are fine, but that might not be the case for everyone

The thing about the batteries is they won't just suddenly stop working... they'll gradually degrade away to the point where they might no longer fit the needs of the owner, and therefore be replaced with a new battery, but for some they might be more than happy to continue using a battery in 10-15 years when it might only have 40%-60% of its original usable capacity available... And when the guy above gets his new battery to replace the degraded one, the degraded one won't be worth nothing... It will still have value (and use to someone).

The same logic above would apply to EV's too and the "what happens in 10 years when you need to replace the battery" question that's incessantly raised time and time again.... The batteries (in the vast majority of cases) won't just simply stop and no longer work.., they'll degrade away, but will still chug on for many many years... and someone buying a 500km range car today might be more than happy to still have 200km range in it in 20+ years... Batteries will outlast the cars.

Dayor Knight · 23-10-2023 1:19pm

We have 9 panels on a fat roof, facing SW, capacity 3.4 kw. Got them in last December. cost about €5,800 after grant (E.I.). No battery.

Am loving it so far. Have EV and had signed up to a weekender plan (smart meter) with E.I. before we got these in. Am charging the ID 3 mostly on Saturdays at zero rate and the solar then reduces the impact of the (10%) higher day rates during the week. I sometimes use the solar to top up during the week (slow).

It's great having almost constant hot water without having to think about it (excess goes to the water), and to run dishwasher, washing machine etc during the weekdays (not at same time!) knowing the solar is taking a good bit of the load.

My overall thoughts on it are that it's almost a no brainer if you have an EV. Without an EV it still has it's attractions, but probably quite a long payback period. I haven't run the figures on it.

We didn't get a battery (as yet anyway) because of (a) the cost (b) f.i.t. available (c) the possibility of EV to home charging in the next few years (using EV car battery as the battery store). Didn't look like it was worth it, but I will keep an eye on it if battery costs are reducing.

You have to remember too that once it has covered itself, you still have the panels and they will generating well beyond the payback period. And it has added value to your house.

I'd say the best 6K we've spent in recent years.

Gumbo · 23-10-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273688#Comment_121273688

Shouldn’t have to replace any of that.

in 6 years in so can’t say anything yet.

Gumbo · 23-10-2023 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273732#Comment_121273732

Nope. None of that in the real world.

You seem to have a lot of fears of hypothetical situations that are so rare. If that’s the mantra, you’d never leave the house, or cross the road or drive a car!

No servicing required.

No cleaning require sunless is a heavy sand area. The rain cleans everything else!

Widdensushi · 23-10-2023 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274030#Comment_121274030

Every school to get panels free was announced in budget 2022,no sign of them in the schools in this area yet

slave1 · 23-10-2023 1:33pm

No, unfortunately not, the VAT free put in place last year did not include schools and Budget 2024 now includes schools

Solar Panels The VAT rate on the supply and installation of solar panels on school buildings will be reduced to 0%, with effect from 1 January 2024.

rockdrummer4 · 23-10-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274116#Comment_121274116

Haha, I do all 3 and still ask the questions..

orangerhyme · 23-10-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274139#Comment_121274139

There's only 4000 schools in total in Ireland both primary and secondary, so in theory they could all be fitted quite quickly.

3 years is a very realistic target to have them all fitted.

rockdrummer4 · 23-10-2023 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274107#Comment_121274107

2 contradictory sentences :)

ted1 · 23-10-2023 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274139#Comment_121274139

Pity schools are empty during the summer….when the supply is max

AndyBoBandy · 23-10-2023 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274201#Comment_121274201

Not really as thats when they'll generate (and export) the most amount of electricity, and thus earn the most money for the school/state.

3,000 schools pumping out 20kW for 4-5 hours per day in summer is 60MW... and that's making a decent dent in our carbon footprint from power generation.

Install big enough systems, and 3,000 schools pumping out 80kW each, and you are then shutting down a CCGT plant like Tynagh/Whitegate/Dublin Bay/Ringsend etc... for a number of hours...

Solar panels at home, worth it?

Comments