Heat Pumps - post here.

Padre_Pio · 10-10-2023 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218406#Comment_121218406

You could grab the weather in Cork and overlay it on your graph to see if there's any pattern

https://data.gov.ie/dataset/cork-airport-hourly-data

I notice the biggest difference when heating DHW, so I set my max water temp to 45C.

graememk · 10-10-2023 10:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218406#Comment_121218406

Careful.. this could drag you down a rabbit hole very quickly. https://community.openenergymonitor.org/t/emonhub-support-for-samsung-heatpump-monitoring-via-modbus/21154 If its done there, Its likely already done for home assistant too.

In the process of getting the bones of an esphome device together to talk to the heatpump i have planned to put in (ecoforest) but no point doing much more until I put it in.

alfa_aficionado · 12-10-2023 12:45am

We have a Waterkotte DS5019.3 Ai heat pump - currently run it overnight only (from 2am to 9am) and seems to keep house warm. We have underfloor heating, both up + downstairs, with many rooms having their own thermostats (11 in total across both floors). Without going through all 100 pages I’m just wondering if anyone could post or point me to an idiots guide for setting up heat pumps.

Someone mentioned earlier that it’s not a good idea to have too many heating zones - how would you go about rectifying this ?

OkeyDoke12 · 12-10-2023 11:52am

What temperature do people have set for upstairs and downstairs during the winter months?

dominatinMC · 12-10-2023 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227564#Comment_121227564

3 zones. Downstairs open plan living area is set at 21deg, downstairs bedrooms at 19deg, and upstairs rooms (bedrooms + office) are also at 19deg.

OkeyDoke12 · 12-10-2023 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121228198#Comment_121228198

I only have option for day and night temperature control so I have day time at 21 and nighttime at 18degrees

alfa_aficionado · 12-10-2023 7:48pm

Anyone know the default Service Pin for Waterkotte heat pumps? Trying to enable “Expert” view…installer gone bust long ago so I just hope it’s not been changed from the default.

Ketron · 13-10-2023 11:12am

Hi folks, posted this in another thread but never got a response. If someone could provide advice it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :)

Are there any recommendation for a GSHP that can be installed outdoors? We have an old Neura system, that's next to impossible to get anyone to look at. The compressor itself was replaced about 10 years ago with a Panasonic one (I think), but the whole system doesn't work great in winter to be honest and runs at full speed all the time (I think at least, power consumption is a constant 3kW draw). Even at that it doesn't do a very good job of heating the house.

The control unit is located indoors and the heatpump itself it located outside with well insulated piping between the house and the heatpump. About 15m or so.

Ideally I'd like to use the existing infrastructure (coil outside and underfloor heating) and just replace the heat-pump and control unit with a modern device. Most of the ground source heat pumps that I can find are located indoors and generally heat hot water as well. We removed the old Neura hotwater tank and replaced it a couple of years back with a Panasonic DHW system.

dominatinMC · 13-10-2023 10:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196303#Comment_121196303

Apologies for jumping in and bringing up an old post, but I've been reading back through the thread and find your points interesting. I'm also an advocate of the low and slow approach. I'm messing about with my own settings in an attempt to find that sweet spot. I have UFH in open plan living space and rads elsewhere. I know a lot of variables involved, but roughly what do you think would be a good flow temp for a well insulated (A3) house? Given the rads, it will have to be a bit higher than that needed for UFH only, I'm currently in around 38deg, seems to be doing well, but I may drop it back further.

HotSwap · 14-10-2023 8:46am

You can only achieve lower flow temps if you have sufficient flow rate. Do you know what is the max flow rate you can get with your setup?

dominatinMC · 14-10-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121235856#Comment_121235856

I don't know it, but should be able to figure it out. I know it should be sufficient though as we had to install an auxiliary water pump to get hot water to furthest away rads (balancing was some fun!) and when we set aux. pump to highest setting, water was coming back warm on the return line even though rads were warm. This implied that the rate was too high, so we thorttled it back and found a sweet spot - at a flow temp of 38deg. If I turn this down, flow rate will need to go up though

HotSwap · 14-10-2023 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236338#Comment_121236338

Do you have a low loss header separation between the two pumps? You should be able to get a readout of the current flow rate in the settings of the heatpump.

dominatinMC · 15-10-2023 10:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121238127#Comment_121238127

Tbh, I don't even know what a low loss header is, or looks like! My plumber installed the auxiliary pump. Not sure I can get a flow rate measurement from the heat pump unit, it's an Ecodan model, and I've played around with the various settings, as well as reading the manual, and doesn't seem to be any means of obtaining a flow rate measurement. I have the pump curves, so if I calculate the pressure drop through the pipes, I can determine the flow rate

graememk · 15-10-2023 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240535#Comment_121240535

Heres a video of what one might look like : (I know hes removing it but if you needed another pump you might have one)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFG1P2Ta1GI

Its for hydraulic separation, Its so each pump doesn't effect each other.

dominatinMC · 15-10-2023 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240588#Comment_121240588

Cheers, not sure i've seen one of those tbh..

HotSwap · 15-10-2023 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121240786#Comment_121240786

I’d be concerned that the additional pump is consuming a huge amount of power and making the whole system totally inefficient. It could be easily consuming 300-400W of power constantly while the heating is on. Send the model.

KeRbDoG · 16-10-2023 10:38pm

For folks with a ground source heatpump - how do you have it configured in terms of settings?

Hot water block(s), heating circuit raise/lower times/values etc.

This might be one of those 'how do you drive a car' questions, but I've had a heatpump for years and feel that I might be over running the thing

munsterfan2 · 17-10-2023 9:05am

Here are the settings for my waterkotte GSHP ( currently getting a COP of 6.1 for October ). As I am on an EV tarriff I have the hot water set to turn off at 17:00. There is enough there for all the kids to shower post training etc so long as they behave and are out in under 10/15 minutes each. It then is set to come back on at 02:00, for the cheap rate. I have a lower temperature requirement for the heating for 17:00 - 19:00 also, just to avoid these. Alos set the weekly thermal boost for legionnaires to run at 03:00 so 9c / kwh.

Not 100% sure what the heating curve settings should be, but here are mine as set by installer:

and these are the flow temps when running.

phil_space · 19-10-2023 5:27pm

Got my A2W heat pump installed in May (some great advice on Boards!) and so far so good. Heat pump installation brought house up to A2 rating. Obviously now I am coming into heating time so am interested to see how the unit performs, as to date the COP is primarily based on water heating.

One query however. The heat curve and weather compensation sets flow rate based on the outside temperature. The house has a lot of south-facing glazing, particularly in the open-plan living area, and therefore gets lots of solar gain. As such, the house was much warmer last week when it was 9 degrees outside and sunny (because of solar gain) and higher flow temperature, than this week, when it is 13-14 degrees and overcast with lower flow temp because of weather comp. Without, having to tinker with setting flow temps/heating curves on a daily basis, depending on whether or not it's sunny, any advice on how to optimise this?

munsterfan2 · 19-10-2023 5:39pm

We have a thermostat in kitchen / open plan area and there is a setting which sets how much influence this has,

alfa_aficionado · 19-10-2023 9:14pm

Anybody could explain these settings? I've no idea what they do or how to set them?

1. Temp out begin (18°C)

2. Temp return base (23°C)

3. Temp curve gradient (7.5%)

4. Temp return real (21.5°C)

5. Temp return target (27.4°C)

6. Temp room target (20°C)

7. Temp room influence (0%)

8. Increase off (0)

9. Setpt chg start (00:00)

10. Setpt chg stop (08:00)

11. Setpoint change (3.0)

12. LEGIO. MTWTFSSP (00000000)

I know the last one is when the legionnaire programme runs (which looks like never) - what does the P option stand for though?

Our hot water seems to be heated to a target of 52°C - presumably this is too high for day to day use but if we lower it then presumably we'd have to set the Legionnaire programme to run - how often does it need to run though?

HotSwap · 20-10-2023 6:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259759#Comment_121259759

The question is which week was more comfortable for you? That will decide if you need to adjust the curve up or down. The only think I can think of in terms of factoring in the sun is the mounting location of the outdoor temperature sensor. I know in an office building I work in the BMS has sensors on each orientation external wall.

it would be worth checking the documentation of the heatpump to see where they recommend the external temp sensor to be mounted and if yours is mounted to spec. Also if they support an additional outdoor temp sensor maybe?

phil_space · 20-10-2023 6:48pm

@munsterfan2 @HotSwap Thanks for the feedback. I have only a single thermostat which is located in the entrance hall at the northern end of the downstairs open-plan area. The outside temperature sensor is attached to a north-facing wall. In general we would prefer the house to be on the warmer side so will monitor the situation going forward and adjust accordingly.

alfa_aficionado · 22-10-2023 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121260675#Comment_121260675

Any one able to shed any light at all?

hexosan · 23-10-2023 2:33pm

Can anyone recommend a company (Leinster area) who will service a ground source heat pump. Original installer is still in business but won’t return a call for the last few months.

system is 7yrs old

randombar · 23-10-2023 4:30pm

Hi Folks,

Getting installed there in a couple of weeks, they've told me about the radiators that need replacing which is ok apart from the towel rads in the bathrooms. Any better looking alternatives to putting the standard radiators in?

Calahonda52 · 23-10-2023 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275088#Comment_121275088

do you mean std low temp say 30C delta t rads or standard 60C delta T rads

HotSwap · 24-10-2023 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275088#Comment_121275088

Towel rails are not really sufficient to heat a bathroom on their own; mine is only about 500W output; and that would be significantly reduced at heat pump leaving water temps.

I have a big double vertical rad (2000Hx600W) in the bathroom as well as the towel rail.

Also I don’t know if you care about the looks of rads; but I personally hate the look of the generic white “compact” rad. And I also find that they get clogged with hair / dust and never perform as they should. Have a look at some other options like vertical and steel rads. They look great and arnt a huge additional outlay.

did you have a full heat loss survey done to calculate the heat loss of each room?

tvmediasrv · 24-10-2023 1:28pm

Still trying to figure my heat pump out, the way im currently doing it I'm not so sure its the most efficient.

The comfortable temp in my home is about 22c ( new build well insulated), during the day ill turn the stat on the wall down to 18c so it doesnt call for heat if it drops down below 21.5c

I have the day and night electricity so between 11pm and 8am it's half price. About every second day when the temperature drops to about 20c and it feels slightly cooler, ill turn the room stats to 22c and in the morning when it reaches that temp they will either stop calling or I will manually turn back down if still trying to get to desired 22c temp.

Just wondering is this more efficient and saving me money due to the lower elec cost or is it better to leave the room temperature stat constant throughout the day.

I have weather dependant mode switched on but not sure this makes a difference. Heat pump is daiken altherma 3

Thanks

John.

KCross · 24-10-2023 1:55pm

If you are tweaking room stats every day (or even every week) you are doing it wrong! 😀

The idea should be to set the temp you like and the HP will maintain that temp (once you have the right settings/schedules etc)

Within the HP menus there are usually some settings where you can tell the HP to not run at various times (regardless of call for heat) so you can get the HP to lean more to the night time to take advantage of that cheaper electricity and it will then release the heat by day via your underfloor heating.

However, you generally should not shut it off entirely by day as you will then get larger swings in temp and you are giving the HP alot more work to do to make up for not running during the day... so its a balance and you need to try a few settings and give it a few days and see how it goes and then adjust again if you feel its not quite right, until you eventually get it the way you like for your house and your HP.

The main thing to understand is that its not the same for everyone... every house, person and HP is different.

Heat Pumps - post here.

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