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General British politics discussion thread

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    #10022
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121263834#Comment_121263834

    Well, the PM must retain the confidence of the house which is an election of sorts within Westminster, though I agree that an actual up and down vote ala the Dáil would be preferable.



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    #10023
    Unflushable Turd
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    Claiming Sunak is unelected snacks of brexiteers claiming that the eu commission is unelected.



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    #10024
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,224 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121263851#Comment_121263851

    The line trotted out was that the CPO price was fair so previous owners don't deserve anything more.

    At the very worst they could use the land as linear park / bio diversity route.



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    #10025
    Unflushable Turd
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Unflushable Turd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121263395#Comment_121263395

    No, Leroy have their opinion, I gave mine.



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    #10026
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,224 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Over at Conservative Home there was a comment that Tory + Reform UK got more votes than Labour in the by-elections.

    Straw clutching as it was 295 votes in Mid-Bed and just 59 votes in Tamworth. Monster Raving Loony numbers.


    With FPFT even a few % of votes lost will lead to marginals changing hands. So Reform UK / Britain First / English Democrat may dilute the far right vote. If Tories try to move further right then they might loose two elections in a row.



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    #10027
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121264206#Comment_121264206

    I think that's how the term came into current use. One of the supposed advantages of Brexit was that it would free the British People from the malign influence of Unelected Eurocrats and if ever there was a shadow on the sunlit uplands, it could be dealt with by the Great British Voter.

    Only now the uplands are under a permanent cloud of darkness, and the Great British Voter sees that they are powerless to do anything about it, because a handful of Tory Party members decide who's in charge and who gets to feed in the trough of taxpayer's money.



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    #10028
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,666 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121264221#Comment_121264221

    The obvious thing would be a biodiversity area or greenway but that would be very against Sunak's pretend culture war stance against green policy and his very real stance supporting disaster capitalism.



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    #10029
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121264234#Comment_121264234

    Yes, but what is your opinion based on? I gave examples of why I believe he isn't ever going to deliver what you hope for.

    On what basis fo you think Sunak is merely pretending at the moment



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    #10030
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121264074#Comment_121264074

    In the absence of an elected head of state, that's what we get in the UK and it's a trend that reached its zenith in 2019 with Johnson and Corbyn being plastered everywhere.

    The alternative is to say that it's just ok for politicians to lie and that the Tories did nothing wrong to say they'd stick with HS2 and then bin it once it suited them.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #10031
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265536#Comment_121265536

    Yes, and the trend is poisonous. Claiming Sunak has no mandate is exactly the same as Johnson claiming a personal mandate to do as he chose. That is why he felt so comfortable destroying all protocol and bypassing parliament. Claiming parliament can't give a PM a mandate is basically the same thing.

    The Tories saying they'll stick with HS2 and then binning it is something that hopefully will cost them at the next general election. I'm not sure what it has to do with mandates.



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    #10032
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265667#Comment_121265667

    It isn't. The idea that Sunak and Johnson have equal amounts of democratic legitimacy is ridiculous IMO.

    It may be best to leave it there since I think we're both entrenched on this.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #10033
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm not the one trying to overturn the tenets of Parliamentary Democracy. Nor bringing in weird false dichotomies around HS2.

    If you would prefer a French presidential-parliament system then fine - because that appears to be what you're arguing for. It's a perfectly justifiable system, but it's not constitutionally what exists in the UK and it should not be allowed to creep in that direction as it is a fundamental change in governance. I agree that it most certainly is going in that direction unfortunately. All this will lead to is a system where the executive take more and more power and the only ones who can directly do anything about it are 50,000 people in the PM's constituency.

    Why the "mother of parliaments" is so deeply and seemingly uniquely incapable of understanding the role of a parliament I don't understand.



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    #10034
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266822#Comment_121266822

    I doubt posting on an Irish message board is likely to affect the UK's constitutional settlement or parliamentary democracy as a whole. If this is what you're resorting to, let's just agree to disagree.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #10035
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,482 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    There's an interesting narrative developing in the right wing press that Sunak and Hunt are not 'real' conservatives (far from it in fact) and that only when the party is taken over by Braverman and Badenoch will we see the real 'true blue' party emerge - I guess this represents a shift of them wanting to see a UKIP style government now.



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    #10036
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266833#Comment_121266833

    Of course it won't. Nothing we do here is meaningful in the grand scheme of things.

    Anyway, I won't agree to disagree because it is simply legally and constitutionally incorrect to claim that Sunak or Brown had less of a mandate. While I understand your viewpoint and acknowledge that it is shared by many, the correct course of action should be to advocate for a presidential system as that is what you are already viewing it as. The creeping power of the Executive is one of the worst things to happen in British politics in the last decade - something that is frequently highlighted by an essentially powerless Speaker of the House. I would argue it's "**** or get off the pot" time for the UK and they should decide exactly what form of governance they want because they are in danger of leaving the entire concept of parliamentary democracy behind.



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    #10037
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266851#Comment_121266851

    I wouldn't call that interesting. It's just the Tory right spewing disposable words because they want Braverman to run the party. I saw in the Independent that Nigel Farage reckons he'll be leader by 2026. Ordinarily, I'd dismiss that as hogwash but the fact they prominently invited him to conference may indicate more hope for him than I would have thought.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #10038
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,482 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266894#Comment_121266894

    The peculiar thing about all this is that they are openly talking about a Tory party that appeals to the 'real' Tory base only, not one that is fit to govern an entire country. It seems almost irrelevant to them that a Braverman / Farage led government would be hated by 70%+ of the British population. Strange times.



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    #10039
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266915#Comment_121266915

    Because they are still terrified about losing out to the likes of Reform party and have purged any sensible Tory from the ranks of decision making in the party. This all comes back to Johnson in many ways (and also Brexit tbf).



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    #10040
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266915#Comment_121266915

    There are two points here.

    The first is that they're "talking". The running theme of the past few years is that talking is all they do. Even the absurdities like the Bibby Stockholm that they do occasionally drop turn out to be farces.

    The second is that they seem to think that voters are the problem rather than themselves. The silent majority trope is as old as it is easy to resort to. Farage at the peak of his powers got 4.4 million votes in 2015, or 12.6% of the popular vote. In a proportional system, that would be a problem but that's not what we have.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #10041
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121263235#Comment_121263235

    I doubt Sunak will remain leader but history is on the side of Labour being out of office by 2030.



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    #10042
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Even by Nadine's standards, this is horrifying:

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1716735397802233947

    Honestly, I think Sunak's best move is to call an election for Spring-Summer 2024 and keep his head down in the meantime. He has neither the capital, the wiggleroom nor the time to actually do anything that will bolster his prospects.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #10043
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,305 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121278575#Comment_121278575

    I always chuckle at the idea of Big Woke, where these capitalist, profit driven corporations are also apparently at the same time, fiendishly left wing.

    Or indeed chuckle at the idea that the simple reason why Social Media appears so liberal is, maybe, because the predominance of broad (Western) opinion trends liberal in the first place. As evidence by various polls, referenda and so on that back this up when the rubber hits the road.

    No no, it's not enough that one simply leans more right-wing than the majority, and one lives with a minority view - it must be a conspiracy.



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    #10044
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121278595#Comment_121278595

    Indeed. And all Europe's oldest political party which has enjoyed over a decade of executive power can do is point and shriek apparently.

    To follow on from my post above:

    https://twitter.com/AlexSelbyB/status/1716730929568256498


    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #10045
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,335 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Very shocking that 4 million are destitute in the UK. This is absolute not relative poverty. This is a doubling of the number in the last five years.

    That is the ultimate failure of Govn't.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/24/tories-poverty-destitute-history-politics




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    #10046
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,666 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279056#Comment_121279056

    Don't forget this government believe they are not poor. They are "just not smart enough to realise they can manage their budgets by eating plain pasta every day for life".



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    #10047
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    When Keir Starmer recently ruled out scrapping the two-child benefit limit (a move that would lift about 270,000 households with children out of poverty) he cited the need for “tough decisions” in order to be fiscally responsible.

    The Tories have achieved their goal of making far-right policies appear normal.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #10048
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121277986#Comment_121277986

    Is it? The Tories are headed for the type of collapse parties rarely recover from in one election cycle.



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    #10049
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279162#Comment_121279162

    Nah. That's just the PR. They know what they're doing and they don't care one bit. Sure, a few of them, never ones who've ever rented, nevermind struggle, will say things like you can live on 30p a day but that's just meat for the Daily Mail readership.

    Anyway, the actual government just treated us to this:

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1717100621457711185

    Pretending to have achievements isn't going to help next year.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #10050
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281570#Comment_121281570

    I'm thinking it'll end up something like the 1945 Attlee government. Technically they were reelected in 1950 but it was a narrow victory and they were out in 1951.



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    #10051
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,666 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281688#Comment_121281688

    That is very very unlikely.

    The Attlee government called their own election in 51 to boost their majority. An election a year into a government under fixed term parliaments wouldn't be likely unless the government changed PM which would be seriously unusual a year after a win or it was a coalition government with a terribly belligerent partner.

    History is certainly not on the side of your thinking here.



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