N and L plates both displayed.

Henry Ford III · 26-10-2023 11:19am #1

What is this practice about?

Is it just laziness that the correct plate isn't displayed? Imagine a car driven by a Learner, a Novice, and a full license holder (with experience). The plates don't apply properly to any of them.

Whilst I understand the reasoning behind displaying the appropriate plate it makes no sense at all to display both, and it must be confusing to the average motorist who encounters such a car.

The answer of course is to use magnetic L and N plates which are easily and quickly changed.

AmpMan · 26-10-2023 11:22am

You must be easily confused 🤣

Dial Hard · 26-10-2023 11:23am

I will never understand why this bothers people so much.

dashoonage · 26-10-2023 11:26am

i still have a Novena 1997 sticker up

Henry Ford III · 26-10-2023 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285657#Comment_121285657

Why do people display L and N plates at all? - It's a legal obligation.

The only certainty in someone displaying both is that it's incorrect. Same as non displaying any plate really.

steve-o · 26-10-2023 11:33am

OP, wait until you see N and L together, with the L facing the wrong way...

HeidiHeidi · 26-10-2023 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285693#Comment_121285693

A full bingo card if the N is upside down

26-10-2023 11:35am

Has @AMKC taken over your body?

AmpMan · 26-10-2023 11:36am

I have an N & L plate on my car just to piss people off.

GBX · 26-10-2023 11:38am

Likelihood as you said, both learner and newly licensed driver use the car. Possible laziness but life is to short to worry too much about it.

User1998 · 26-10-2023 11:40am

I’ve never been confused by it, nor have I ever cared.

I thought it was obvious anyway? It’s usually the parents car who has two children, one who is a novice and who is a learner. Or a novice driver who shares a car with a learner?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy · 26-10-2023 11:43am

Would you stop.. if it’s a shared car and it’s 7am on a winter morning, I’m not fluting around taking down someone’s L plates. If you see any type of plate on a car, keep a wary eye on them on roundabouts, and don’t lean on the horn if they stall it at the lights. Otherwise, what does it matter?

Kimbot · 26-10-2023 11:44am

Its easy, thats the new sign to show you support the way of the Dutch :P

artanevilla · 26-10-2023 11:56am

Those magnetic jobbies fall off and get robbed.

It's just convenience. I drive my partners car an odd time, she is a learner so has L plates up. The difference in treatment on the road when I'm driving with L plates on versus my own car is nothing short of disgraceful a lot of the time.

The Continental Op · 26-10-2023 11:56am

Its effectively illegal to have both up.

Why?

Your not supposed to have anything inessential on your front window that could block your view. If you are displaying both N and L then one of them is inessential.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1963/si/190/made/en/print#article34

(b) all glass and all safety glass fitted to a vehicle shall be maintained in such a condition that it does not obscure the vision of the driver while the vehicle is being driven and shall be kept free of inessential objects or inessential stickers;

Now I've never heard of anyone getting done for having both and doubt it would ever happen but it might if a Garda was desperately looking for something to pull you up on.

artanevilla · 26-10-2023 12:01pm

Your DDC parking sticker is "inessential" as well as your work car park sticker, AA sticker etc.

You could also argue L and N plates are both "inessential" even if driver is learner or novice. As well as your tax, insurance and NCT. The law says they must be displayed, not that they be stuck to the windscreen.

Padre_Pio · 26-10-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285812#Comment_121285812

No chance of it ever being enforced.

Near every car in the country has a dealer sticker on the rear window. Most safety glass has manufacturer logos, and many people have stickers, sun visors, legal tints etc.

All of these could be called "inessential"

Besides, I see many people with L and N plates on their bumper or bonnet.

26-10-2023 12:05pm

I still have the yoke from the ferry hanging from my rear view mirror.

The Continental Op · 26-10-2023 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285836#Comment_121285836

Good point maybe all L and N plates should be displayed on the bumper on bonnet?

Miley Byrne · 26-10-2023 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058319727/n-and-l-plates-both-displayed

Ah shur the magnetic ones wouldn't stick to the glass at all at all

cython · 26-10-2023 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285812#Comment_121285812

By that logic dashcams are illegal if mounted on the windscreen (which most are, obviously), as they're not essential by any means.

Henry Ford III · 26-10-2023 12:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285881#Comment_121285881

The surround that they attach to magnetically does however.

Del2005 · 26-10-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285812#Comment_121285812

The amount of people with their phone mounted in the middle of the windscreen shows how well that's enforced.

antodeco · 26-10-2023 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286008#Comment_121286008

The amount of people that have it mounted front and centre of where they are looking is terrifying!

Anyway, my understanding of the N and L platers legality is that if you are not an L driver, it is an offence to drive with it on. Id assume the same as an N plate.

Beasty · 26-10-2023 1:27pm

Tried magnetic ones for my learner kid and the one on the rear came off the first time I took them out

When I put one on the rear window it was hardly visible due to tinting

So I have N plates for the 18yo who has now passed his test, but his sister is still on L plates. If I try and take off the adhesive ones every time one or other kid got in the car I would be destroying the planet with all the wasted plastic, and my wallet with the wasted money. Hence until my daughter gets through her test I'm "risking" both. I suspect other drivers will get the message that the driver may not be someone who has been driving on a full licence for 45 years, unless they glance at the drivers seat and see a balding geriatric at the wheel.....

26-10-2023 1:32pm

It’s often a shared car in a household with a couple of learner drivers at different stages.

Sumimasen · 26-10-2023 1:39pm

My take on it has always been that L is the more strict of the two so in the case of both a learner and a novice having use of a car the L plate only should be displayed.

mohawk · 26-10-2023 1:40pm

I see it. It’s usually on a parent’s car. It has very little impact on me as a driver if I don’t know if they are an L or an N. Just don’t be an aggressive i***t behind the wheel and give them a chance to take off.

To be honest once my plates came down I found there was a huge reduction in other drivers being bullies or aggressive towards me.

Henry Ford III · 26-10-2023 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286174#Comment_121286174

Why not just display the correct one?

26-10-2023 2:11pm

They are either from the Netherlands or like to display notices about Electric Live and Neutral.

KLF · 26-10-2023 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285748#Comment_121285748

I refer to these drivers a Dutch drivers 😄

One valid reason is it’s a shared car and there is both a learning and novice driver using the car. Most people just don’t look at rules closely and think the N plate is an additional plate after passing the driving test.

GBX · 26-10-2023 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058319727/n-and-l-plates-both-displayed

The average motorist doesn't care what plates are displayed. Yeah, there are some who take it upon themselves to bully L drivers on the road, it doesn't alter the behaviour of most on the road.

The Garda at a checkpoint might confirm if a driver is fully licensed if they are displaying N plates but other than that, not many on the road would be too bothered about either plate being displayed let alone 2 on a car. Its been mentioned in other replies, some find it handier to leave them on. Hardly the end of the world if they do.

Yeah Right · 26-10-2023 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286265#Comment_121286265

Laziness, followed by the fact that you can get points if you forget to switch them at any point.

The Guards will do SFA if they see you with both, but if they see you're on a learner license and there's no L-plate then it's time for points.

Henry Ford III · 26-10-2023 2:44pm

So can we agree that:-

1/. L driver not displaying correctly is illegal.

2/. L driver driving solo is worse whether or not they have L plates displayed.

But

3/. It's absolutely fine to display both L and N plates (even on a motorway) with a fully licensed driver at the wheel just because it's too much trouble to take down the plates?

My view is that if it's important enough to display an L or N plate that it's a legal requirement to make such a driver more visible to other road users, then it's also equally important that the correct plate relating to the driver is shown at all times, and that displaying both has to be wrong.

Buffman · 26-10-2023 3:08pm

Some people seem to be under the mistaken impression that there's something illegal about having both L and N displayed. It isn't an offence here to drive with a plate that doesn't apply to the driver. Offences occur when the correct plate for the driver is not displayed, so I wouldn't blame anyone for leaving all of them on to avoid costly mistakes when multiple drivers are using it.

On the practical side of things, you only get a few shots at taking the sticky ones on and off before they get wrecked and have to be replaced or sellotaped on. Having the experience of sellotape residue stuck all over the windscreen, it's not something I'd recommend. Magnetic ones are not reliable and are easily lost or stolen, as well as risking scratching you're paintwork. Personally I found sticky ones left on the bumpers to be best as no visibility issues and the sticky residue can be easily cleaned off a plastic bumper. (Obviously in between the parking sensors 🤣)

IMO of all the things to moan about regarding driving in Ireland this issue doesn't even make the bottom of the list.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285812#Comment_121285812

In a country that legally requires motorists to plaster their windscreens with 'inessential' tax, insurance and test discs it would be a very brave Garda to attempt to go to court on that law. (They're inessential as every Garda now has a phone app that checks all that stuff instantly.)

The Continental Op · 26-10-2023 3:13pm

In a country that legally requires motorists to plaster their windscreens with 'inessential' tax, insurance and test discs it would be a very brave Garda to attempt to go to court on that law. (They're inessential as every Garda now has a phone app that checks all that stuff instantly.)

Your definition of inessential and while they may not want to take it further a great excuse to stop anyone displaying both in their windscreen.

Buffman · 26-10-2023 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286788#Comment_121286788

I get where you're coming from but in Ireland no 'excuse' at all is needed for a Garda to stop any vehicle on a public road.

GBX · 26-10-2023 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285812#Comment_121285812

Having both up on the passenger side wont obscure the driver. No more than having other stickers on a windscreen, without question:

"Essential healthcare worker" - Many still up, what's the requirement for them to come down? The "pandemic" is over. By the logic of some on this thread, these should not be on a windscreen. And nobody displaying them should be on the road until removed.

"Parking stickers" again, displayed by many but according to this thread, illegal to be on a windscreen.

AA/RAC/etc stickers - often overlooked but not essential. Just shows you pay a fee to have your car/vehicle collected if it breaks down. But the recovery agent wont go looking for the sticker. They'll cross reference the make, model and reg plate to be sure.

Sumimasen · 26-10-2023 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286265#Comment_121286265

Sounds ideal but in reality nobody is climbing in back seats fiddling about with display stickers every time they get in the car, or even keeping a stock of fresh stickers to change the ones that become unusable after removing and reapplying a few times.

josip · 26-10-2023 5:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058319727/n-and-l-plates-both-displayed

Just pass them on the left hand side. Be grand.

creedp · 26-10-2023 6:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286174#Comment_121286174

Agree with that take. Think the N plate is unecessary anyway , just bureaucracy gone mad. Personally I treat all cars the same and tbh it would appear a lot of drivers should never remove the L plate

youtheman · 27-10-2023 8:19am

Never bothers me seeing both plates. I just assume it is a 'shared' car. What I can't understand is someone who cuts off the white bit of the plate and just has a red letter 'L' on the windscreen !!!.

artanevilla · 27-10-2023 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289148#Comment_121289148

They are just letting the world know they have small willys.

freshpopcorn · 27-10-2023 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289148#Comment_121289148

That was very fashionable back in the 2000's!

I think it's mainly because it made the L less noticeable.

josip · 27-10-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290216#Comment_121290216

Or obscures less of the driver's field of view perhaps.

GSBellew · 27-10-2023 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285657#Comment_121285657

Possibly because it defeats the purpose of displaying any plate, you see an L and you know there is a chance they will dither about, be slow moving off from junctions, get confused, do something unexpected etc but they are a learner so you are a bit more tolerant to them, give them a bit of extra space, not get pissed off with them for making the inevitable mistakes.

N, well they should be competent having passed a test but not always so still be a bit more patient with them.

No plates, should be a fully licensed driver, so if they do something stupid feck them out of it.

Buffman · 27-10-2023 2:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286174#Comment_121286174

'Failure to display L plate or tabard' and 'Failure to display N plate or tabard' are separate offences. The penalty for both is the same, starting with 2 points and €120 fine rising to 4 points and €240 fine.

https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/services/s2-licensed-drivers/rsa-penalty-points-offences-2022.pdf?sfvrsn=7ef1d693_9

GBX · 27-10-2023 2:46pm

Other than altering other drivers that you've just passed your test recently, I don't see what displaying an N plate achieves. Another money fine collecting money spinner.

Sam Russell · 27-10-2023 11:06pm

Look, an L or N plate made of vinal is very flexible and will adhere to a window with a little spray of water and a rub of a dry cloth. It takes just a few seconds and less to take it down.

It is obviously for reasons other than the problem the difficulty of fixing the plate, so why?

I think the AGS should be enforcing the rules. It would take a few high profile cases to wipe out the practice.

User1998 · 28-10-2023 9:28am

Why are people so bothered about L or N plates on a strangers car?

The J Stands for Jay · 28-10-2023 9:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285684#Comment_121285684

Displaying both at the same time should attract the attention of the Gardaí. If there's one person in the car, it could be an unacomopanied learner driver. If there's two, it could be a learner being accompanied by a novice, which is illegal. They should be pulled over on sight and licences checked

N and L plates both displayed.

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