General British politics discussion thread

breezy1985 · 25-10-2023 9:43pm

Mr. Pincher and Mr. Bone are accused of sexual allegations.

It's like a fuked up version of Mr. Men

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2023 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284269#Comment_121284269

And this is just the stuff they couldn't keep quiet. A party with a culture this toxic is going to have a lot more skeletons waiting to pop out.

L1011 · 25-10-2023 9:59pm

HIGNFY last week had a line about Baroness Motorboat and Lord Cottaging needing to be rather concerned with the nominative determinism on show.

I could see Bone brazen it out as far as to run in the recall election. Nobody has actually run in the recall election called against them yet; and they've all caused a party swap - from a total of 3, as Paterson, Matheson, Pincher and Johnson resigned instead.

breezy1985 · 25-10-2023 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284337#Comment_121284337

You would think they would be more careful after Anthony Weiner was caught showing his penis over in the US.

I could be wrong but isn't Bone in another 20k+ suddenly up for grabs seat ?

PommieBast · 26-10-2023 2:49am

Wellingborough. After last week's gains Labour ought to take this one easily.

Sam Russell · 26-10-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284337#Comment_121284337

Paisley Jr did in NI, but I suppose that does not count.

L1011 · 26-10-2023 11:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285756#Comment_121285756

There was no recall election for him, they did not achieve enough signature

Sam Russell · 26-10-2023 12:19pm

The most economic damage in the UK post WW II was the result of Thatcher's approach to economics - shutting manufacture and coal mines, and not building council houses.

The closing the coal mines caused massive job losses in the North East, Yorkshire, South Wales. The midlands suffered from the closure of the BL plants, plus Liverpool and Scotland. Shipbuilding was closed in Belfast and Glasgow.

But the London stock market traders got to wear red braces and drive Porsche cars - who would not like that? A drop in one go of income tax top rate from 75% to 40% - who would not like that?

Even Truss could not manage that. [Actually, Truss could not manage anything!]

Hotblack Desiato · 26-10-2023 1:10pm

Not one to defend Thatcher but the coal industry had been in substantial decline in both employment and output for many years before her time, despite being nationalised, and its demise was inevitable on environmental and economic grounds.

British Leyland's future didn't look too bright either but her governments poured billions of pounds into it.

While Jaguar, Land Rover and MINI as BL successor companies continue to assemble cars in the UK, the always privately owned Ford does not.

Tony EH · 26-10-2023 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286033#Comment_121286033

It's not the fact that industries were in decline. It's the fact that she was willing to simply abandon entire communities and let them rot that was the problem. She was a callous bitch, and that's putting it nicely.

Tony EH · 26-10-2023 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285894#Comment_121285894

Yeah. If you were part of a particular set in the City of London, you did alright under Thatcher. Elsewhere...not so good. She was the PM for the "I'm alright Jack" crowd.

Podge_irl · 26-10-2023 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286194#Comment_121286194

Well indeed, but the problem was not investing in alternative industry for the area. The coalmines absolutely should have been shut.

I have no time for her, but that wasn't the discussion at the time either. The push was to keep them open, which would have been a terrible decision.

peter kern · 26-10-2023 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283124#Comment_121283124

it should be easy for you to produce those stats, and i guess you would also have to proof that the stats improved during the labor gov . and there is not just a downward trend since thatcher or even the 2nd world war .

than there is of course the fact that also in france and beligium germany the poorest regions are ex mining regions so in a way what your statistic kind of proves is that most of the poorest regions in western europe are ex mining areas

one of the other issues with your stat is how to define a region, darmstadt in the top 10 richest regions but is not a region for instance its a city . so how can one compare a city such as darmstadt with northern ireland , it just does not make much sense.

Sam Russell · 26-10-2023 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286209#Comment_121286209

I would have said the crowd she PM for was the "I'm alright, Caruthers!".

Jack was very much left out in the dark, with nothing.

Her decision to sell off all council houses, and not build any more meant a constant shortage of houses for the 30% who had to rely on subsidised housing. This resulted in a constant shortage of houses, which caused a constant rise in house prices that continues to this day. Also, rental cost have also been on a constant upward trajectory due to increased demand for private rentals.

All in all, a disaster for the bottom half of society, particularly those outside the south-east.

ancapailldorcha · 26-10-2023 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286033#Comment_121286033

While these were declining industries, there were better solutions than the purging approach she adopted. Germany has managed to both retain its manufacturing sector and establish itself as a maker of high quality industrial products. The British approach was to just shut down the primary industries of whole regions and then abandon them to the vicissitudes of the global economy and the market.

The Economist has a good piece about the UK's manufacturing sector. To surmise, it's doing better than a lot of people think:

Yet British manufacturing has been remarkably successful. According to the oecd, a club mostly of rich economies, its productivity growth comfortably outstripped that of any other g7 country in the 14 years after the onset of the financial crisis in 2007 (see chart). Gross value added (a measure of output) per manufacturing employee rose by 37.3% between 2007 and 2021, against an average of 12.1% among Britain’s peers.

This wasn’t done just by shedding employees. After a long decline in the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s manufacturing employment has been stable since 2008, at around 2.6m. “We stopped deindustrialising as a country 15 years ago,” says one boss. “Just no one seemed to notice.” Though net job losses have stopped, manufacturing’s share of all jobs has shrunk from 8.9% in 2008 to 7.1%, a far cry from its peak of almost one in three in the 1960s. For those who do remain, higher productivity has translated into higher pay. It averages £36,488 ($44,500) a year, 9.2% higher than the whole-economy average.

Manufacturing in Europe and the US tends to focus on highly specialised goods instead of the more basic products that were formerly made en masse here. This means smaller facilities which tend to be concentrated such as the production of wind turbines in Hull. This can be good for the regions if employers are willing to help train local people but if they prefer to hire from abroad, things can get politically difficult.

PommieBast · 26-10-2023 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286398#Comment_121286398

From the perspectives of local authorities Right to Buy was an asset-strip job. Buyer discount between 30-50% of market value and half the proceeds went to central government. Think there was also some other limitations on what little the LA got could be spent on.

breezy1985 · 26-10-2023 3:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286628#Comment_121286628

Gutting of local authorities is one of the primary goals of a Tory government. If people can't afford books that's their own fault and how dare they ask for a library or god forbid a swimming pool not policed by a private members club.

Sam Russell · 26-10-2023 3:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286441#Comment_121286441

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

% increase is not much of a measure if the UK are coming from a very low base - which is probably true, given their history.

Any further data that actually gives the gross value added per person, rather than the % increase?

Sam Russell · 26-10-2023 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286628#Comment_121286628

Selling council houses was the gift that kept on giving for the Tories. Who is going to complain when they can buy such an asset at a 50% discount.

Were there claw-backs if it was sold within a time frame? Or any restriction on its sale or use - to safeguard the market and availability of council houses?

I thought not.

ancapailldorcha · 26-10-2023 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286840#Comment_121286840

In fairness, there's not much point if you're just going to rubbish them with that old quote.

Sam Russell · 26-10-2023 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286869#Comment_121286869

The truth embedded in some old quotes is timeless, and so worth reusing.

Statistics quoted like that are false, without the backup that cries out to be included. I had two biscuits with my tea instead of my usual one. Wow, a 100% increase in biscuit consumption.

PommieBast · 26-10-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286846#Comment_121286846

Was usual story of there actually being clawbacks/limitations, but nothing a fancy bit of financial engineering could not get around.

ancapailldorcha · 26-10-2023 7:37pm

Crispin Blunt arrested on suspicion of rape:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67233090

I wasn't around for the Major years but I can't imagine they were this toxic in 1997.

L1011 · 26-10-2023 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287815#Comment_121287815

Suspicion of rape and possession of controlled substances.

Nominated determinism strikes again!

Major was suffering sleaze scandals, promised to strike them out and they just got worse. His "back to basics" strapline got taken as a joke to mean sex.

Water John · 26-10-2023 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286889#Comment_121286889

Sam, on the maths, I think that's a 100% increase😉

Sam Russell · 26-10-2023 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287862#Comment_121287862

Well, yes it is - just checking on the basic ideas statistics are based on lies!

Edit: Original post corrected.

Good loser · 27-10-2023 2:22am

Nice to remember both Bone and Crispin Blunt were rabid Brexiteers.

Tom Mann Centuria · 27-10-2023 8:27am

Vocal critic of Israel and staunch supporter of Palestine, the timing of this has certainly added grist to the mill of the conspiracy theorists.

peter kern · 27-10-2023 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286441#Comment_121286441

are suggesting that the torries goverment is helping to improve manufacturing productivity . as you show 2008 to 2021 which is mostly conservative government.

ancapailldorcha · 27-10-2023 11:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289676#Comment_121289676

I'm saying that the UK's manufacturing sector is doing better than is made out. The economy is still lopsided towards financial services but there is some high-end manufacturing that takes place here. One example is the cutting edge Cell and Gene Therapy Catapult in Stevengage.

General British politics discussion thread

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