General gaming discussion

Potential-Monke · 26-10-2023 5:38pm

My issue isn't with the bugs, it's with the fact that they went the Rockstar route of just releasing the same things again and no effort to modernise it, like Capcom are doing with RE and apparently they've all been really excellent remakes. I'd spend money on those types of remakes, not €60 on a collection of old games. It worries me for the future of Legacy of Kain, they might see these low effort rereleases and just do that.

Retr0gamer · 26-10-2023 7:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287389#Comment_121287389

I'm perfectly fine with re-releases of old games and preserving them. While I like the Capcom remakes one for the best things about them is that they are different enough experiences that they don't replace the old games which are still excellent games worth playing. Also this metal gear collection has a massive amount of content for the price of a full game. You are gett 5 of the best games ever made and two not so good but interesting curiosities.

Grumpypants · 26-10-2023 8:38pm

People prob got used to remakes and remasters and never expected just a straight up re-release for the MGS collection.

Likely not helped by announcing it at the same time as showing the remake of 3. Maybe people expected they were all getting remade.

I think if it came out at €40 and was pitched right it would take way less flack.

Markitron · 27-10-2023 9:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287389#Comment_121287389

There are mitigating factors here, these games were already modernised sufficiently (IMO) with the HD remasters 10 years ago. This is just making those versions far more accessible. And what Bluepoint did back then is night and day compared to what Rockstar shites out onto the shelves.

You could make an argument for it being a bit pricey, but the games are still fantastic and there are plenty of extras. Won't defend the Switch version though, that is pure nonsense.

JimBurnley · 27-10-2023 10:19am

Netflix increasing their gaming coverage...

Potential-Monke · 27-10-2023 11:00am

Nah, I don't agree. It's a blatant low effort cash grab imo. But the bar is set so low that they require people to purchase it with nostalgia. Doesn't take long for the rose tinted glasses to get fogged up with zero effort bugs and issues.

But, each to their own. People still preorder so why wouldn't they chance their arm at a quick buck, gamers have proven that games don't need to be polished or finished in order to sell.

Retr0gamer · 27-10-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289679#Comment_121289679

The issues here don't seem that bad other than the switch version. It's supposedly less buggy than the previous HD remaster with more accurately emulated effects. The big issues I've seen are the blur filter applied to mgs1 which apparently will be addressed with a patch and the low resolution of the PS2 games. The older games NES games are M2 developed so will be best in class and the msx games are the hd collection versions which were already great.

The only other complaints I see are people being unrealistic and expecting updated models and textures, which usually are at the detriment to the original games artistic visions (see bluepoints sotc and demons souls, look how the massacred my boys) or else expecting a complete remake from the ground up. I mean a remake of just one of these games is the same work as making a new game from scratch and we are already getting a mgs3 remake.

The games aren't perfect but I think gamers need to curb their expectations.

Potential-Monke · 27-10-2023 12:07pm

So you admit they are making an effort to modernise 3, but in the meantime here's a low effort port collection for nearly full price, but they haven't fixed everything.

Maybe its madness to try and complain about a straight port collection to someone who loves retro games. A complete remake is what I would want to even be remotely interested. Again, each to their own.

Corvo · 27-10-2023 12:14pm

Yeah, they shouldn't be left off the hook because they are going to patch a blur filter.

johnny_ultimate · 27-10-2023 12:16pm

There's very much a place for robust remasters and re-releases. 'Remakes' are often entirely different games to the original - either fundamentally changing the aesthetics or gameplay of the originals. Robust, thoughtful re-releases of the original games with sensible, modest updates around resolution, frame rate, QOL features and controls are essential for preservation and - frankly - artistic integrity. That's extra true when games are as singular as Kojima's MGS games, warts and all. They should also be priced accordingly, either in generous 'collections' or appropriately priced given the dev work will solely be focused on remastering rather than actual game design. There's a place for remakes too, don't get me wrong, just not the only solution.

There have been more than enough exceptional remastering efforts that half-hearted efforts don't really cut the mustard. Hopefully, other developers are inspired by the likes of Digital Eclipse's stellar recent 'museum' style efforts (Atari 50, the Cowabunga collection) - obviously, the games they've worked on so far have been less technically demanding than the likes of MGS, but the sheer volume of supporting material in the packages has been incredible and set a new standard.

PixelPlayer · 27-10-2023 12:27pm

Alan Wake 2 getting great reviews. What have things come to when a game is praised for not being a buggy unoptimized mess? I know it seems to be a good game too that appears to deserve a high score, but there is a lot of praise for not being a mess.

Exclamation Marc · 27-10-2023 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290020#Comment_121290020

The one thing that I dislike about it is that it's a digital-only game. That said, its a GOTY candidate and the praise is near unanimous which is great to see.

Retr0gamer · 27-10-2023 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289955#Comment_121289955

I'm not admitting anything just stating a fact. As I said you're getting a collection of some of the best games ever made for the price of one game and they all hold up and are perfectly playable. It's not nostalgia or rose tinted specs, a good game is a good game.

I think you just need to realise what you have issues with, that this collection which was never promised to be anything but a collection of old games isn't the hypothetical remakes that don't exist and aren't being made (save for mgs3 so maybe hang on for that).

Jordan 199 · 27-10-2023 1:18pm

I downloaded Dead Space last night and will start playing it tonight.

Resident Evil 2 Remake was the scariest horror game I played, so I will see if Dead Space will beat it on the scary scale.

Retr0gamer · 27-10-2023 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290150#Comment_121290150

Play soma instead. Thank me later.

Zero-Cool · 27-10-2023 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290150#Comment_121290150

Thanks for the reminder! I have 4 days left of ea play so gonna try dead space!

Potential-Monke · 27-10-2023 2:14pm

Maybe I expected more than yet another collection of old games, again. They've done this, what, 4 times now?

And excuse kenfor thinking it may have been a proper remaster to modernise the games as it was mentioned around the same time the 3 remake was mentioned, sneaky imo.

But yes, this collection is not for me. I'm just surprised people are willing to buy them yet again for no reason other than "they're all together".

I'll leave it at that. Must get back to Spiderman 2 so I can jump between life threatening situations and setting people up on dates...

pixelburp · 27-10-2023 2:43pm

If folks are happy with a quick set of emulations thrown over the fence, and pay full-price for the privilege, then fair enough. Obviously YMMY, but I think the argument that it's lazy as fúck is a little hard to dismiss.

jj880 · 27-10-2023 2:46pm

Reposting from the Quest thread.

Some good uses of mixed reality appearing for Quest 3 colour pass through. In this video. NES games.

https://youtu.be/SIpPx8AaY8Q

Retr0gamer · 27-10-2023 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290635#Comment_121290635

PS2 emulation isn't exactly download pcsx2 and shove it on a disc. This is three emulation layers of PS2 to PS3 to PS5. It could possibly be better but calling it lazy is pretty dismissive of the Devs that worked on it. M2 can hardly be classed as lazy.

They might be old game but this release makes them more widely available and on PC this is the first time they've been on that platform. It contains every version of mgs1 including versions that haven't been available since 1998. It's the first release of vr missions. It's the first time Konami has acknowledged and rerelease the NES version of metal gear and snakes revenge.

There's a lot more to it than just dumping it on a disk and apparently the archival, presentation and emulation that M2 worked on is their usual best in class work.

McFly85 · 27-10-2023 5:02pm

PS2 emulation doesn’t come into it at all I don’t think, MGS2 and 3 are direct ports of the HD remaster.

It’s a nice collection but €60 is crazy money. The pricing on steam is all over the place tbh - the MSX games alone are €20, and curiously the msx games with mgs1 is also €20.

Ill buy it once it runs on the deck and is much cheaper.

Retr0gamer · 27-10-2023 5:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291237#Comment_121291237

It really does come into it. The Devs have shown images of where they fixed the PS2 emulation errors of the original HD release. It's a PS2 to power PC to x86 conversion. And to get it to work on power PC and the 360s and PS3s weird architecture I'm sure caused issues as well when emulating on x86.

I'm not sure what people are expecting for 60 euros. It's 3 modern enough 3D games and 5 8-bits games. That's a lot of hours of gameplay there and its more fun and varied than any 60 hour ubi monogame.

McFly85 · 27-10-2023 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291268#Comment_121291268

So they polished the emulation of an existing release, I stand corrected. Surely the 360 version was used for Series X and PS5 considering the dodgy cell architecture though?

And I still think €60 is a lot for 3 games where the most recent one is 19 years old. It’s very much a stretch to consider MGS1 modern too, as much as I love it having played through it recently enough, the stealth mechanics are very simplistic.

And this might be me but the effort involved in porting games against creating new ones that are similarly priced really doesn’t make it feel like you’re getting value.

Alan Wake 2 is an entirely new game that costs €60, but when you factor in all of the people involved(and as we regularly see in 10 minute long credit sequences that don’t even include everyone who worked on the game), you can understand why it costs that much.

Re releases, while not as simple as some make them out to be, will just generally be less effort intensive as the actual game already exists.

Although for the second collection I would say getting MGS4 off the cell architecture will likely be a significant headache so I’ll be interesting to see what that’s priced at.

Retr0gamer · 27-10-2023 11:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121291363#Comment_121291363

Kind of simplifying it a bit there. It very hard to replicate what the PS2 does since it's memory and GPU differ so much. They also had to be coded to the metal meaning effects that cause issues are bespoke and can't be replicated with simple API calls which most modern games use. And the 360 code was probably used but the 360 GPU is weird and the xenon CPU is close to cell and is three power PC CPUs in parallel. I mean the Saturn is hard, the 360 is a different beast again. Most likely the games had major rewrites of code to get them working natively as emulation of the 360 just isn't feasible on a PS5.

Zero-Cool · 28-10-2023 10:38pm

So, zero interest in Alan Wake 2 since i haven't played the original yet but the review scores look amazing. Would be much more inclined to pick up a physical copy though, same with Like a Dragon Gaiden: the man who erased his name (or u know, Yakuza 8) releasing next month. Nice they are cheaper than the usual new releases though at 60 and 50 euro.

Grumpypants · 28-10-2023 10:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121296201#Comment_121296201

I think the remastered version of the first is on ps+. Well worth it and it got a nice boost so look good. I liked it but did feel the later part dragged.

johnny_ultimate · 28-10-2023 11:14pm

Having not played the original game since its original 360 release, you’d be absolutely fine to jump into this one with just a recap video. The new one is leagues ahead in terms of execution. Though I believe there are a lot of little references to characters in that original game that help create an eerie, slightly ‘off’ vibe that the new one does so well. But it would also help to have played Control, and to have at least a passing knowledge of the Scandi-noir series The Bridge and The Killing 😂

Retr0gamer · 28-10-2023 11:41pm

I wouldn't recommend anyone play the original. It had a few interesting ideas but it was a dog to play and I'm baffled by the 'its a classic!' Legend of dragoon renaissance around opinion of the first game. Save yourself the pain and watch a recap so you get all the interesting stuff without having to play it.

PixelPlayer · 29-10-2023 8:25am

Thanks guys, I watched a 1.5 hr recap video on the remedy universe lore leading up to 2.

I'm not far into AW2, but woah this is good.

The only thing I'll say is I hope Alan Wake has got a new coat when I see him 😄

Retr0gamer · 29-10-2023 10:13am

https://twitter.com/MatthewPerry/status/1812052650?t=Nk8n3BedPY7ri64LptEArw&s=19

RIP Matthew Perry. I'm not sure what the pants around your ankles means but you had good taste in games playing Klonoa.

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