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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Not going to make the irfu much money but would be great for the game and a great opportunity to blood some newer players



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,052 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    How much would a tour to Argentina make anyway? If every rugby championship/6 nations side played 1/2 more games a year against Uruguays/Namibias/Georgias every year the sport would be in far better place



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Ive yet to see any example of where a team sacrificing games for success at RWC's has actually worked long term.


    And btw when I say this I mean good teams deliberately being sh!t, as oppose to sh!t teams being sh!t (i.e SA under Alister Coetzee).


    What Ireland need to do is keep going the way they have been and keep building momentum at least for the next 2 years and then when we enter the 2nd half of the RWC cycle then start making tweaks. That is actually how the best sides have actually won RWC's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Any team that cant maintain a top 6 ranking doesnt deserve to be a top seeded side, I don't think Ireland have been that low in like 7-8 years.


    I completely agree with you on you're 2nd point, its a complete myth with no evidence supporting it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Agreed with a small but...did we go into this tournament with sufficient depth and might that depth have been better if we had rotated more in the previous 2 years? Farrell brought in a lot of new players and he certainly promoted most of the players who showed a lot of promise at provincial level but he's also had a knack for selecting players who maybe aren't sing lights at provinces and coaching them to become far better players. If that continues and our selection policy remains as is and/or improves we should be in good stead both for success in the 6N and for 2027./



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    For all the talk about we need a different approach, we’ve actually had the most successful international 12 months in our rugby history.

    A Grand Slam, followed by what is (sadly) probably our best ever showing in a World Cup. We won all the games in our group - despite having the reigning champs in our group - and were inches away from winning the QF and having a very favourable semi-final to follow.

    Given how well the team had performed from late 2021 onwards it was a disappointing World Cup exit, but let’s not lose sight of how much better it was than the 2019, 2011, 2007 or 2003 exits.

    We’ve improved massively over the past 8 years, and the last 4 in particular. Advocating a complete and utter overhaul of the things that have shown consistent improvement over the better part of the last decade seems incredibly short-sighted



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Aki deserves this. By far our best player at the world cup. I reckon the benifits of having Aki around Forde, Gavin etc are beneficial. Connacht are loaded with inside centers. They're probably deeper than all of the other provinces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    David Humphries to replace Nucifora according to the IT.

    Not massively inspiring, given his time at Gloucester...

    IRFU/Nucifora getting so much stick over the Pienaar issue... hope it wasn't a factor....



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Not sure what he has done to warrant this appointment but I wouldn't be totally against trying him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭farmerval


    One issue for the sad argument that Ireland should "peak" for the world cup is that under our system we have the players available at all times, their minutes managed by the IRFU to have them at peak when the national team needs them. From that we are more or less always at our best, we don't have the club v's country that the UK has, we don't have players heading to Japan or Europe for a while and returning for the world cup cycle. We have our best available all the time. Therefore it stands to reason that we should perform to the same or similar standard all the time.


    On a different related point, more B team tours should be undertaken, as a step between underage and full senior rugby the last one was a great opportunity for players to be tested in situations several weren't getting at their provinces.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,059 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Now that's a tour I'd love to follow as a fan. Sounds brilliant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    What do you mean? What would Ruan Pienaar have to do with this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Belfast Telegraph running with the Humphreys to o replace Nucifora as well but no quotes from anyone to confirm it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,052 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    It would. And to include Uruguay wouldnt need too much extra travel with Montevideo in Uruguay so close to Buenos Aires....



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,355 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The Pienaar decision will be pointed to as a success by IRFU, in the end Ireland ended up with Cooney who is a option at 9 available to Ireland and played some games. Ulster fans might not like it but after all the main job of the provinces is to provide players to Ireland. If Pienaar stayed would Cooney have got the chance he has with Ulster?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    All that is fine, but I still don't know what it has to do with David Humphreys potentially replacing David Nucifora other than Humphreys was the man who signed Pienaar back in 2010 (or around about then).



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Stop. Cooney was not really an option for Ireland, it, in no way supports the decision to move Ruan Pienaar on.

    Was Cooney good at Ulster, definitely, but so too was Pienaar. No one advanced from Ulster to really contest for a place in the Ireland team that Pienaar would have blocked had Ulster been allowed to keep him.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I find it amusing that anyone thinks the IRFU would care one iota about Ulster fans in their decision making.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,355 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    He played for Ireland and was in plenty of squads. So from an IRFU point of view they moved out a NIQ and replaced with an Irish player who made it into squads and played for Ireland.

    It has nothing to do with the appointment and I wasn't the one who suggested it. Humphreys is been appointed I guess for his experience etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I'm well aware he was tried and got caps but he never really in contention for the first 23 in the Irish Team so Pienaar wasn't hold anyone back in an Irish context



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I know you weren't, I wasn't expecting an answer from you, I just happened to quote your post as it was the last one on the subject!



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Btw, Ulster plucked Cooney from Connacht (after he transferred there from Leinster) when they lost Pienaar, it's not like they developed him. If Cooney was as good as you think, he'd have got those caps while playing for Connacht.

    I really don't see any upside to the IRFU by forcing Ulster to release Pienaar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,679 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    In fairness he was behind Murray who was one of the best scrum halfs in the world during that period. Few rumours he didn’t see eye to eye with certain players and coaches which may also have been a contributing factor to not making as many squads as his form warranted.

    Cooney was a huge success at Ulster and was as influential for them over a period of years as Pienaar was IMO. On performances he should have been a live option ahead of McGrath and Marmion, but there’s other elements to selection that we’re not privy too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    From what I remember, Pienaar was on the decline in his final few seasons at Ulster and Cooney's arrival gave them a shot in the arm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Overall, it's been a fantastic two seasons for the Ireland team. A series victory over New Zealand and a Grand Slam marks this as our most successful period ever and is one every player and fan should be rightly proud of.

    I don't think we could have done much more to prepare for the World Cup either. Farrell revitalised a flagging side post 2019 WC and made us one of the world's best again. His selection decisions were mostly on the money and he held fast to his desire for an athletic, technically excellent pack with passing options from 1-8. If you don't fit what he wants you're out. I'm not saying this as a way to re-litigate old decisions, but you can absolutely see why he didn't select Jean Kleyn for instance. He isn't a player that fits the mould of lock Farrell was looking for.

    I think we're well positioned going forward, but we need to start looking at a back up to Andrew Porter especially. I think he's a world class player, but we've flogged him for Leinster and Ireland in recent years. He shouldn't be asked to play 70+ minutes every game. We'll need to make a decision at blind side flanker and 10 as well. But we've enough talent coming through that I'm not very concerned.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think we're well positioned going forward, but we need to start looking at a back up to Andrew Porter especially. I think he's a world class player, but we've flogged him for Leinster and Ireland in recent years

    I agree, but at least with Ireland this is because the replacements are simply not good enough and no amount of game time was going to change that. It's not something an international coach can fix.



  • Posts: 13,688 Paris Wrong Ramp




  • Posts: 13,688 Paris Wrong Ramp


    Five Irish in the team of the year - joint highest with France and both knocked out in quarters.

    What a mess World Rugby made of the draw. Having a draw three years out is inexusable.




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Well deserved and I'm delighted for him but they were hardly going to give it to Rassie



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Well deserved recognition for Farrell and those players. They've all been fantastic. Keenan should be at 15 ahead of Ramos as well.



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