Advice re Garage Service Issue

Tfeck · 28-10-2023 9:17am #1

I am just wondering what the best course of action is when a car under warranty is sent in for service and a major fault is discovered which means the car repair is delayed and I am left without the use of my own car or a courtesy car?

Briefly, I left my 211 Skoda in for service with the garage in Drogheda on October 19th. They discovered an issue with the turbo and are still having difficulty sourcing the necessary parts, even though I was promised the car back yesterday (Oct27). The garage also promised me a car when one became available and yesterday I was again informed that no car is available, ruining particular plans I had for this bank holiday weekend. The car 'might' be ready next week I am told, but I am left in a rural setting with no transport. Thankfully, I am retired and don't need the car for work, but it looks to me that no matter what one needed the car for, this dealer is not willing to support their customers.

Any advice appreciated!

Whocare · 28-10-2023 9:43am

My local Skoda dealer in Banteer in cork would take one of there sales car and give it to customer if needed. Sounds like you’re dealer are pretty poor went it come to customer service

Jim_Hodge · 28-10-2023 10:06am

A poor dealer. I've never had an issue with a courtesy car. Tell them it reflects badly on them and not the service you'd expect. Something to keep in mind when next changing the car.

bucketybuck · 28-10-2023 10:32am

I'm not trying to defend the garage here, just trying to give some perspective from their side so that you can plan accordingly.

The key word is courtesy, it is a courtesy to provide a replacement car and not a legal requirement.

It falls into the question of what a manufacturer is liable for when a failure occurs. Are they liable to fix the defect? Of course. Are they liable for any costs incurred? Perhaps, but how far does that go? What if the car was transporting goods and the breakdown caused you to lose out on a multi-million euro business deal, is the manufacturer liable for millions?

That might sound facetious but it is the same principle as for a replacement car, is the manufacturer liable for incurred costs or not? If they are liable for a car then they are liable for all the other possibilities as well. So the terms and conditions are wise to be clear that they are not liable for any of it.

You could test that in court and it would come down to a reasonableness test from the judge, but in my decades in the industry I have very rarely seen it get that far.

As for why they don't just give you a car, the simplest answer is that they don't have one to give you. That comment about just giving you a sales car is over simplistic, every single customer thinks they deserve a courtesy car so how many cars are they going to keep spare just for that purpose? 10? 20? Pay road tax on 20 cars just in case they are needed? You can't give out new cars because they are not registered, and if you register some to use as courtesy vehicles then they are not new cars any more and just lost half their value. If you give all the used cars out then you can't sell them, and again they are losing value all the time while driving around country.

As for the parts issue and the promise that the car was going to be ready, unfortunately it is an industry where promises cannot always be met no matter how hard they try. Parts supply is no small matter, they can have the best of intentions and still end up caught out. For example, they may have ordered all their parts immediately in order to speed things up, but when stripping the turbo they found a tiny bolt sheared and now that one bolt is on back order from the supplier and the promise can't be met through absolutely no fault of their own. Maybe the boat didn't sail from Holyhead last night so the parts order didn't come and now they are days behind, again through no fault of their own. Its crap and its frustrating but its always the way it is, and its why garages give estimates, not promises.

One again, I am not trying to defend the garage, so don't come back at me complaining that things should be different. Frankly this scenario happens every single day in every single garage so I'm not too invested in one more example. I only post so that you can understand where they are likely coming from and so can choose an approach that might work. Because I'll say one thing, it is probably not true that they don't want to support their customers, but going in all guns blazing might just change that.

Tfeck · 28-10-2023 10:55am

I was told yesterday that I should have booked a courtesy car when getting the initial service, then I would have the use of that car now! Given the circumstances around the extended repair period I would have expected some priority around a car at this stage, but at no time in my conversation with the service manager was I given to understand that any form of priority or support is on the table for me. In my previous dealings with a Peugeot garage getting a replacement car was never an issue, including outside the warranty period. With this garage I am getting no sense that they care about this particular customer! For me some empathy would go a long way, but there is none!! Yes I will not be dealing there again!!

carfinder · 29-10-2023 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121293547#Comment_121293547

Twice you claim that you're not trying to defend the garage while proceeding to, at length, defend the garage

bucketybuck · 29-10-2023 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121298768#Comment_121298768

Explaining a thing is not the same as defending a thing. If you can't understand that then so be it.

carfinder · 29-10-2023 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121298778#Comment_121298778

Wow. You should probably consider some self awareness training if you think your contribution was anything other than defending the garage. But carry on 'explaining' how things are from your perspective of decades in the industry...

bucketybuck · 29-10-2023 5:50pm

Your contribution to the OP has certainly been top notch, thats for sure.

carfinder · 29-10-2023 6:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121298836#Comment_121298836

The best advice to the OP is to ignore your defense of the garage, but let's dismantle your unhelpful contribution as follows:

1. It is not a courtesy to stand over a vehicle, still under warranty, which has been unavailable to the customer since 19th October - it's simply compliance with what would be reasonably expected as a consumer right

2. Supply chain issues don't cut it for a Skoda main dealer - totally unacceptable to have a Skoda name over the door and not have parts within 24 to 48 hours

3. There is only one Skoda dealer in Drogheda so its fairly obvious who the unnamed garage is. I looked up their website to find they have 40 2nd hand cars available for sale at the garage - so your argument around availability of a courtesy car is not valid. There is no excuse for leaving the OP without a replacement car

4. You advise against going in "all guns blazing". The OP has gotten 2 weeks of no car by being nice about it - ALL GUNS BLAZING is the best approach when nothing else is working

Perspective is important, but bias is not helpful and I regard your advice as biased by your 'decades in the industry'

bucketybuck · 29-10-2023 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121298952#Comment_121298952

Thats nice, in terms of useless pub talk all thats left is for you to quote the old "consumer protection act" that lads think is the answer to every problem. When you ask for details on how these things work they tend to go quiet unfortunately.

Honestly, you seem to be the type that thinks saying something aggressively makes it true, like just saying loudly that main dealers should never have supply issues will magically make that be the case, in all defiance of the issues that industry faces. Just like saying that because a garage has cars on their books they should all be given out to workshop customers, in defiance of all the reasons that that isn't always possible, some of which I already listed above.

Just like standing firm that a courtesy car isn't a courtesy, despite the fact that its literally called a courtesy car.

Oh well, so be it. I have met many like you over the years, one thing common to you all is that you are always right, the garage is always wrong, and thats its a damn disgrace Joe.

I hope the OP gets the fault fixed and their car back as soon as possible. Maybe you could actually give them some practical advice on that matter, though I suspect not, after all, its easier to whinge about what others said.

con747 · 29-10-2023 11:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300006#Comment_121300006

You wouldn't happen to work in a Skoda garage in Drogheda would you....

bucketybuck · 30-10-2023 12:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300108#Comment_121300108

Any advice for the OP?

con747 · 30-10-2023 12:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300276#Comment_121300276

Yes, ignore your posts.

bucketybuck · 30-10-2023 12:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300283#Comment_121300283

So just like the other lad you have absolutely nothing to offer except snark at those who did try to offer information.

Go on, you're here now, give the OP some constructive advice...

Something that will actually help them, and not just rubbish like "Its isn't good enough, somebody should do something".

Lets hear it.

con747 · 30-10-2023 12:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300295#Comment_121300295

The advice I would give the OP is not to listen to a poster who has already stated they are in the industry who will not be unbiased. Over and out.

bucketybuck · 30-10-2023 12:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300308#Comment_121300308

You already said that.

Now tell them who they should be listening to. Although that would involve one of you lads actually offering something to listen to.

carfinder · 30-10-2023 6:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300006#Comment_121300006

Wow, you are really invested in your pro garage viewpoint - the bias is strong in you!.

You quoting me on the "consumer protection act" is a classic strawman - I never mentioned the term so your response, as well as being biased, is dishonest.

I say a Skoda main dealer should have access to the Skoda parts supply chain a lot sooner than the approx 2 weeks and counting that the OP has endured, you counter with some insider knowledge drivel that defends the industry and advises the OP to effectively suck it up - totally unhelpful and blatantly biased.

Courtesy car is an industry term, you know that industry that you have spent decades in - Let's use the term "replacement car" so that your decades of bias can get over itself. A replacement car is a consumer right on a car under warranty which has been unavailable to the OP since 19 October.

You apparently have met "many like" me over the years .... seems you're on a mission to put consumers in their place and just accept whatever a garage tell them because, you know...decades of experience lad, decades of experience - unfortunately for you, consumers are a little.more savvy than when you started out.

My advice to the OP is to ignore your unhelpful, biased advices and go in to that Skoda garage on Tuesday morning threatening to get a solicitor involved if a replacement car is not provided immediately.

carfinder · 30-10-2023 8:53am

OP, probably time to get Skoda Ireland involved

Skoda Ireland helpline is 1800 813 764

And email is skodacustomerservice@skoda.ie

whippet · 30-10-2023 9:03am

I had a couple of Skodas between myself and my wife over the years and we live up in the north east .. not far from Drogheda. My experience with a particular Skoda dealer wasn't the best with regards to servicing.

there were always delays .. when her Kodiaq was 6 weeks old the dash lit up like a Christmas tree and left her stranded on the M1. Skoda roadside assist got the car back to the dealer who took 2 weeks to investigate the problem (not fix - but two weeks to actually look at the car) Skoda assist only allowed for a weeks rental at the time so we had to cause a huge fuss in the showroom at the time to get a courtesy car.

When our superb needed urgent work done ... was told minimum 3 weeks before a workshop slot would be free. I called Pilsen in Dublin and they had it back on the road in 48 hours.

Jim_Hodge · 30-10-2023 9:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300315#Comment_121300315

You're not half biased.

They need to contact Skoda. A dealer unable to supply any car to a customer in those circumstances is taking the p!ss. You offered neither help nor advice yourself.

carfinder · 30-10-2023 9:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300610#Comment_121300610

Jeez don't tell @bucketybuck that... he has decades of experience in the industry and advises against asserting your consumer rights to get a result (something about pubtalk... blah, blah)

Well done to you to get a result in the "courtesy car" by causing a huge fuss at the dealers - seems some of these charlatans take advantage of the better nature of people and only look after those who assertively demand their rights. OP, please take note of @whippet experience

bucketybuck · 30-10-2023 4:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300625#Comment_121300625

I always find it strange when lads like you use "decades of experience" as an insult. As if it is such a terrible thing to have experienced this scenario a few thousand times.

Regardless, please do let us know the statute that states a courtesy car is a consumer right, as you claimed above. The actual law please, you called it a consumer right, I would like to read the specifics of that right?

carfinder · 30-10-2023 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301858#Comment_121301858

Your attitude on this issue just confirms you're a dinosaur of the motor industry and your decades of experience is really laughable given your outdated attitude to customer service.

Though I seriously question the authenticity of your claim of decades of experience when you don't appear to understand the requirement of the garage as agent for the manufacturer/distributor to provide a replacement car to the OP for prolonged delay in dealing with a warranty matter - its a combination of contract law on the one hand and statutory rights under Sale of Goods and supply of services Axt 1980 and augmented by the Consumer Rights Act 2022.

Glad I could help educate you

bucketybuck · 30-10-2023 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301942#Comment_121301942

Dear god, you actually did trot out the sales of goods act despite you even trying to say you weren't one of those types earlier. Oh well.

This forum has seen that act quoted thousands of times, what we never see is the actual statute that backs up your claim. Perhaps you will be different. Here is the act, can you please show us where a replacement vehicle is a statutory right for the consumer?

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1980/act/16/enacted/en/html

Can you show me the "requirement of the garage to provide a replacement car under warranty"?

Just saying that it is in the sales of goods act is utterly meaningless without citation.

Believe it or not, I would genuinely like to see any such consumer right, there is so little information out there about what actually should happen in these different scenarios, I would very much welcome the education. Perhaps I might even get it today.

By the way, just remember that my original point was that warranty does not cover all consequential costs and that when it goes to court the judge acts on a test of reasonableness. Which is strange if the topic is directly addressed in law?

carfinder · 30-10-2023 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302000#Comment_121302000

SOGASOSA is the grounding legislation to a consumer taking an action against the offending garage and is now augmented by the CRA as well as the contractual obligations of the warranty provided.

Simpletons think that the law can be applied by simply quoting a specific passage of legislation that neatly deals with the complexities of any given consumer issue - you appear to be one of those simpletons.

bucketybuck · 30-10-2023 5:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302022#Comment_121302022

So in other words the judge will apply a reasonableness test based on the facts and the legislation. Literally the very thing I said in my first post.

For all your definitive talk about rights you have nothing to add, and eventually just repeated what I had already said back at the start.

What a waste of time. You lads never have **** all to offer.

carfinder · 30-10-2023 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302042#Comment_121302042

No, what you advised the OP was to suck it up. The garage is obligated to provide a replacement car. I provided the grounding legislation and contractual basis if he needs to enforce his rights. You provided diddly squat except some arrogant assertion that you know better than everyone else because of your "decades of experience".

You got your a$$ handed to you on this thread but are either too arrogant or ignorant to accept it.

Savetheplanet · 30-10-2023 5:56pm

I hope to god you are no longer in the industry ffs.

Hellrazer · 30-10-2023 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302095#Comment_121302095

Theres no obligation on any manufacturer to cover a replacement car while a warranty repair is carried out.

Its a "courtesy" usually covered by the dealer themselves at a cost to themselves. And is and was the bane of my life when dealing with warranty issues. I had one lad took a car for a day and ended up keeping it for a month and put a couple of thousands Kms on it. Had to end up getting it collected in Cork as he wouldnt return it and wanted hi car dropped to cork.. Ive had cars come back damaged, filthy, covered in cigarette butts etc.Usually a new demo that lost thousands in value due to being used as courtesy cars.

Another customer wanted an identical car to his own- even the same colour which was a special order while his car was being repaired so his neighbours wouldnt notice that his car was in for repairs. I could write book about what people expect when theres a warranty claim on their car.

The basics are that you car will be put back to manufacturer specifications - thats all manufacturers are obliged to do - everything else is a courtesy and thats all their legal obligations are ie to repair your car nothing more and nothing less.

However its a good customer service tool and one we always had in place despite all the crap that went with it.

Even Skoda has it in their T&Cs and Im sure if you look at other manufacturers you`ll fibd exactly the same terms and conditions.

https://www.skoda.ie/owners/assistance.

In the event your ŠKODA cannot be repaired in the specified time, ŠKODA Assistance can arrange Car hire (max three days), Accommodation or make alternative travel arrangements on your behalf*

Note it says "car hire" not "courtesy" car.

carfinder · 30-10-2023 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302381#Comment_121302381

I was wondering who the halfwit was that was liking @bucketybuck posts but it didn't take long for you to reveal yourself.

I have spelt out the basis of the obligation for a replacement car enough times so I'll assume ignorance rather than just arrogance.

Your anecdotes about damage to "courtesy" cars simply demonstrates your ignorance - anyone other than a halfwit would deal with the use of a replacement car in the same was as rental companies do.

Some dealers have a bad name, no wonder with you and @bucketybuck giving the sector a bad name

bucketybuck · 30-10-2023 11:16pm

The garage is obligated to provide a replacement car.

No it is not.

I thought this had already been explained but here you are again. So, once again, if you are going to make that definitive statement then provide the exact and specific legislation to back it up.

You are aware what "obligation" means, yes?

Just quoting the sale of goods act and pretending that covers all is the work of morons and joe duffy callers. So either provide the proof or jog on.

bucketybuck · 30-10-2023 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302095#Comment_121302095

By the way, I know you struggle with long posts, but I most certainly did not tell the OP to "suck it up".

bucketybuck · 30-10-2023 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302381#Comment_121302381

Careful, you are responding to somebody who thinks that car dealers are immune to supply problems, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Yeah, one of those.

Savetheplanet · 30-10-2023 11:30pm

Can anyone else smell the bullshit from a certain poster here.

Hellrazer · 31-10-2023 12:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302490#Comment_121302490

Firsty Id appreciate if you didnt resort to name calling - that says a lot more about your character than mine.And also its against boards rules - attack the post and not the poster.

Secondly regardless of what you feel the law should be - there is ZERO obligation on a manufacturer or dealer to provide customer with a courtesy car while their vehicle is in for a repair - zero - Its at the discretion of the dealer and part of that discretion also means they can hire the customer a car. The word courtesy isnt even used anymore- the phrasing is "replacement"

the sale of goods act does not cover replacement vehicles for warranty repairs - its not in there so you can quote it all you like.

Even the SIMI acknowledge this on their website.

https://www.simi.ie/en/consumer-help/faq-s-for-consumers

Thirdly - if you even bothered to read my post you`d see that in a round about way I agree with you - Not one of my customers was ever left without a car during a warranty repair - NOT ONE -Even though I had no obligation to do so I always provided one because I dont agree with the legislation and feel that it should be part of a warranty agreement that the customer is provided with a replacement car but as the law stands now its not there.

Regarding damage etc- the customer was always invoiced for damage, soiling etc - I was merely pointing out that when something is given for free there is a certain type of person that takes the piss and abuses the privilege (not a right)

Finally - Ive been in the trade for 30 years - Id like to feel that Im different than the usual name that dealers have and over the years Ive helped a lot of users here even going as far as carrying out diagnostics for them without charging them for it, supplying technical bulletins that Im not supposed to, trying to get warranty claims approved for users here as well as checking if something is covered under warranty for users.

So please dont call me a half wit again without knowing more about me.

carfinder · 31-10-2023 8:24am

OP, ignore these 2 industry insiders who are peddling misinformation by attempting to convince you and others that the garage has no obligation to supply you with a replacement car. They both demand to see it stated in statute but of course the law is a bit more nuanced than that so unfortunately simpletons don't often understand it.

Your entitlement to a replacement car emanates from your statutory rights as well as contractual obligations of the garage. Nothing from Skoda or SIMI (quoted by the numpties) can affect your statutory rights but can enhance your rights.

Your statutory rights are grounded in the Sale of Good and Supply of Services Act 1980 but augmented by various consumer protection legislation also.

Your car is under a warranty supplied by the dealer. This means that the dealer and manufacturer are standing over the car for the duration of the warranty period. So you have statutory rights that the car will work, augmented by a contract in the form of the warranty.

NOTHING in the terms of the warranty can affect your statutory rights, it can only enhance them.

The garage is unable to uphold your rights to the use of the car for an extended period of time. You are entitled to a replacement car to ensure your statutory and contractual rights. If you take a legal action against the garage you will win. They know it but are hoping you don't - a bit like some posters here.

OP go in to the garage and assert your rights

User1998 · 31-10-2023 8:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121303985#Comment_121303985

Your 100% wrong on this one. I’ve seen @Hellrazer help a countless number of posters on here with various different issues. He is probably one of the best sources of information in the motors section. You need to cool the jets and stop slandering anyone who disagrees with you. Your even trying to make out that their motive is to stop OP from exercising their rights?

At least the two posters have provided sources to back up what they’re saying, you haven’t. Why can’t you find a source that backs up what your saying? Surely theres a case out there somewhere you can quote?

Nody · 31-10-2023 9:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121303985#Comment_121303985

The buyer of the car has the right to have the car fixed which includes the three ways to redress (void of sale/discount for damage, permanent repair in a timely manner or equal replacement) but nothing in the acts state the right to a replacement for the duration of a repair. This is coming from someone that has nothing to do with cars beyond owning one but has spent over a decade discussing consumer rights for goods in Ireland. Hence can you please tell me exactly what clause/case to cite as back up for your claim? Because I've read the sales act multiple times and re-read it again and I still find nothing to back that up and it would be great to have citations for other issues in the future (oh and keep in mind it's a '21 car so the Consumer right act of 2022 does not apply as it's only applicable for goods bought after 29th Nov. 2022).

carfinder · 31-10-2023 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304012#Comment_121304012

I stand over everything I've posted on this thread. The posts by the industry insiders speaks for them and neither were helpful to the OP. I don't give a tupenny damn if one of them is usually helpful on other threads, neither of them were helpful on this one.

mickdw · 31-10-2023 10:01am

It appears as quoted above that skoda have it in their terms and conditions that they will provide a hire car for 3 days max. Did the op get this benefit at all? It doesn't appear so.

The op is being taken as a fool.

Hellrazer · 31-10-2023 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121303985#Comment_121303985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304200#Comment_121304200

You have been asked multiple times to provide proof that a manufacturer has to provide a replacement car for a vehicle under a warranty repair and so far youve been unable to provide that proof.

You keep blathering on about the consumer protection code.

No where in the consumer code does it state that a customer is entitled by law to a replacement vehicle while their car is in for repairs.

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/faulty-goods/

No one is "peddling misinformation" - you just choose to not accept whats been put in front of you by multiple people on this thread.And just because you choose to believe it and ignore whats been pointed out to you with PROOF doesnt make it legal.

The only person here peddling misinformation is you. However if you can prove to me that what you are saying with credible links Ill retract that statement.

Until then Ill stand my everything that Ive said and that Ive proven correct with links from Skoda, SIMI, Consumer protection website.

Heres Peugeots warranty T&Cs

https://www.peugeot.ie/owners/assistance-warranty/warranty.html

AND WHAT IF I HAVE A BREAKDOWN WHILE STILL UNDER WARRANTY?

If you break down, you should contact PEUGEOT Roadside Assistance. Our experts will be best able to deal with the incident in the shortest possible time. In addition, all costs of the breakdown or towing service will be covered until you arrive at the nearest PEUGEOT garage (within a maximum radius of 100 km). If the repair time on your car is longer than two hours, your garage mechanic will offer you an alternative means of transport to continue your journey.

No mention of "courtesy car " here either.

I can keep looking if you want.

mk7r · 31-10-2023 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121303985#Comment_121303985

This doesn't even make sense though, if your TV breaks you don't get a replacement while its being fixed under warranty? Or your laptop that needs to be posted away for repairs? They have to be at no cost to you but they don't have to give you a temporary replacement until fixed.

There is no right or entitlement to a replacement/courtesy car while your own is being repaired under warranty.

bucketybuck · 31-10-2023 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304200#Comment_121304200

Lets be honest, you have never read the Sales of goods act have you. Go on, admit it.

I mean, we all know you haven't, but they say the first step in growth is admitting these things to yourself.

L1011 · 31-10-2023 12:59pm

This thread is a mess. I'll try figure out if it can be salvaged later

Many of you need to revise your posting styles.

Advice re Garage Service Issue

Comments

AND WHAT IF I HAVE A BREAKDOWN WHILE STILL UNDER WARRANTY?