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2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,501 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Dude you need to get a grip. You signed up to a NZ rugby forum to troll (you know what I’m talking about, unless there’s a second bluedex out there) and you’re clearly hurt and aggrieved. It’s only a game of rugby. Let it go. No amount of bitterness will overturn the 1/4 final result just like nothing will change SA 12 NZ 11.

    Personally I love the NZ - Irish rivalry, the games are really intense and hard fought these days. Bring the next one on!

    i don’t know if Rieko said what he’s alleged to have said but if so, it’s poor sport. But no different to what some Irish players said. If I was a top player I’d do my talking on the field. That’s what counts.

    Trust me, bitterness will get you nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭Strand1970


    Most Irish rugby supporter's are fans of the the way NZ play rugby but just got eyes opened of their behaviour after beating Ireland in the 1/4 final.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Depends how you read the tone, to me it sounds like ‘I didn’t see you release but I now understand you did’, otherwise why say anything, other than his initial no release comment when awarding the penalty. He’s clearly responding to the replay, maybe he didn’t look at it but crowd and player reaction maybe persuaded him. No reason for him to say anything otherwise. And it wasn’t really a tight call, Savea didn’t dramatically raise his hands above his head but both his hands are clearly separated before the tackled play hits the ground.

    There were 50 minutes left at that point. If SA had needed a try or penalty or drop goal or whatever there’s no way to know they would not have had the tactical smarts to make it happen. Their whole World Cup was delivering under the pump.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,377 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Two former Shannon players involved in the SA win.

    Why wouldn't you be happy for them.




  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭homecouldbhere


    Agree with you ersatz.

    Slight thing I would differ on though, is that sledging during a game is part of the game. Would never like to see that disappear.

    But once the final whistle goes, sledging should be done with. As someone else said, NZ lost some respect for what was said to Sexton during the handshakes after the match.

    And rightfully so. So much for their "no dickhead policy"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Agree with the gist of what you said, but NZ ceded the moral high ground when they decided to select players who've committed domestic violence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    N.Z are always cocky and smug, imo. They are as bad as England, imo. In 2019 when they were hammered by England, I was delighted. Not because they had murdered us in the qf but, because they didn't fire a shot. They were completely outclassed. When England lost to the boks, I was chuffed. I think both are insufferable winners. I am very disappointed with our world cup. We fell short, imo. Our best chance ever, but we couldn't clear the hurdle. N.Z couldn't clear a hurdle this weekend. Their smugness was short again.

    It's just my opinion. I don't like the kiwis or their cultural dancing prior to the match. I don't like any teams cultural dancing prior to kick off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭bluedex


    What NZ rugby forum? That's untrue for a start and invalidates the rest of your post.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    For what its worth, SA beating NZ means Ireland moves up to 2nd place in the rankings.

    You're welcome.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭TheRona


    Not that anyone from SA would care, but only one SA player in the Opta team of the tournament




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,432 ✭✭✭Wailin


    Could you imagine how smug and arrogant you'd be had Ireland won a world cup?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,046 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Ridiculous that PSdT isn't in team of the tournament, he's probably be player of the tournament for me. I'd also have Kriel ahead of Ringrose, he was excellent defensively and made some extremely important tackles.

    No idea what Lawes did to justify inclusion there.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think only one SA player in the team of the year is pretty understandable, though only one in the team of the tournament feels a bit off.

    Though I appreciate it's just a stats based thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ruggedguy


    Hi lads - AB fan here, pretty gutted about the final but I thought they played as well as they could considering they were down a man for almost the entire match and still had a chance to snatch it until the final whistle. People tend to forget that being a man down will pretty much throw whatever game plan you had out the window. I’m not here to whinge about the ref/tmo, it is what it is and majority of the NZ public is looking forward to the new era of ABs under Scott Robinson



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ruggedguy


    I’m really suprise eztenben is not on that list. I’d have him over Retallick (he just started to come on late in the tournament)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Kriel and PSDT were my 2 standout players from the SA team, Kriel was everywhere and he made great calls in defence and attack and Du Toit is a machine, his speed and acceleration are frankly other worldly for a guy his size. Sheehan being in the team is an odd one for me also, he's had an incredible career in green so far but he wasn't up to his normal standards for me in the WC, and his darts were very spotty. That said, if he'd caught that ball and scored against NZ I'd probably feel differently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭bluedex


    Pretty much all 3 KO games involving the 4 top teams were similar in that regard, could have gone either way. They were literally a coin toss, a bounce of the ball, a key ref decision favouring one side. Shane Horgan made a good point at half time when he said he thought the extra man wouldn't make much difference for SA because of how they play, he was proved correct I thought.

    I think SA and NZ can consider themselves reasonably lucky to be in the final, and SA to win it. But I think you'd have to say something similar if it was a France v Ireland final. Luck played a big part.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭jacothelad




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Saw a stat doing the rounds that NZ had 9 cards, 3 of which were red in the previous 8 Tests. I think that ill-discipline eventually caught up with NZ in the end.

    You'd imagine things will improve with Robertson tho. Fair bit of transition in the squad to manage tho.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ruggedguy


    Yeah I was gutted for you guys (Ireland), being the number 1 team for the past two years and then get eliminated in the QF, it reminded me of the 2007 All Blacks (that was the worst I’ve ever felt). Don’t worry lads I truly believe Ireland time will come


    And I understand what Horgan was saying BUT being a forward down for 70mins against a SA forward pack & bench…..I instantly had flashbacks of the beating we got in our last game against them. SA should’ve mauled/scrum NZ to death, the game should’ve never been this close



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ruggedguy


    Which always annoys me when People keep saying the ABs gets away with calls - we are one of the most penalised teams in the game lol it’s sad that every game I’m wondering not “if” but “who” is going to get a yellow/red card. This game is just too technical for its own good sometimes

    can scott fix it? Who knows. Maybe he should implement what the springboks were doing by having a referee at their training camps (brilliant move btw)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,967 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    How the hell is Dupont in it?

    Aaron Smith was head and shoulders above any other scrum-half.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    After the semi final win people were asking for a public holiday, so the president sort of promised if we win the final he would look at it.

    Now he declared 15 December a public holiday.

    16 December is already a public holiday, but is on a saturday, so he just gave the friday before it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,046 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Yeah definitely. I thought Smith was holding NZ together at times on Saturday, never seems to make a bad decision.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,508 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Why? His Crusaders sides aren't exactly squeaky clean.



  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭Klunk_NZ


    The women’s and men’s world cups have both been ultimately decided by Red cards. NZ coming out on the right side of one and not the other.

    I didn’t understand the English dominated board claiming an orange card type of system somehow encouraged unsafe acts. The player was still gone from the match and disciplined and they were no more or less cards it the rugby championship under those rules than any other fixture. I seriously think that and less TMO intervention will improve the spectacle.


    If not rugby can continue down the trajectory towards becoming a poor man’s NFL and cede the pace and action branding to rugby league.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Rugby League is a complete and utter irrelevance everywhere but Australia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer



    Yeah, NZ rugby has discipline issues (Super Rugby generally does) that goes well beyond the influence of any single coach although the Crusaders certainly are amongst the better disciplined sides.

    It's a cultural thing to an extent in Super Rugby, I feel. I posted at the time that there was a lot of dismissive commentary around some of the collisions in the Super Rugby playoffs. James Slipper shipping a head knock, looking very unsteady but reappearing magically when the Brumbies scrum was collapsing without him. I think it was Jeff Wilson commentating who was bemoaning any sanction against the tackler who swung an arm at Slipper's head. Then ALB absolutely demolished someone with a head collision in the final and only received a yellow for it. He was subsequently banned but he should have been red carded immediately.

    Officiating is more lenient in Super Rugby, to my mind. NZ teams collected only 3 red cards in the entire Super Rugby season this year but 42 yellow cards. I'd be interested to see how many of those yellows were bunker reviews that stayed yellow. NZ received 3 red cards in their last 8 test matches for context. People have been saying it for some time that it will come back to bite them and it did in the worst way possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ruggedguy


    Yeah true but It’s growing among the pacific nations though



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I don’t necessarily mean with regards discipline (tho can see it reads that way)

    Just think he’ll improve things in genera as I think he’s a better coach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    He might but he has a solid job on his hands. Losing Smith, Mo'unga and Barrett from the back line is massive.

    And Frizzell, Coles, Laulala, Whitelock and Retallick from the forwards from the RWC final is another blow. Sam Cane and Cody Taylor are likely to be gone by the next RWC too.

    Not sure that they have the depth coming through to replace such experience in such a short period of time. Their prop situation should be in a very good place come the next RWC given the age profile but you'd worry about the back five of their scrum and their halfbacks. They'll either need someone to come through at outhalf in a hurry or they'll be bringing Mo'unga straight back in when his three years in Japan are up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    McKenzie will be fine at outhalf, he was brilliant this season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Brilliant in the Super Rugby tournament is one thing. Doing it at top level test rugby is different. He was given a couple of shots at outhalf last summer and didn't take the opportunities at all.

    It was notable that he wasn't brought on against us at all when NZ were just ahead and he was the very last sub to be brought on in the final from either team, getting only the last 5 minutes. I don't think there's much faith in him within NZ rugby relative to those that are moving on.

    He has never really been trusted to start at outhalf for any sustained period or in a big test. I think Robertson will have to select him given the departure of Mo'unga and Barrett but I wouldn't be surprised if he looked to fast track one of the younger outhalves in NZ rugby too.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,863 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    with Barrett and mounga gone, DMCK is the only 10 left with any standing at all. As above, i dont think hes the controlling 10 that NZ need at the very highest level, but absolutely electric at all levels below that.

    of the pretenders, Stephen Perofeta and Fergus Burke are probably the pick of the bunch.

    Millar and Felefaga at highlanders will be vying for game time with rhys patchell, with, id imagine patchall be given the majority of the time. Kewara at the crusaders is still very green and behind burke. Trask will be behind DMCK. i dont rate Cameron of the hurricanes. Godfrey is more a 15 and Morgan is steady eddie.

    Perofeta will be the starting 10 at the blues, and Burke will be the starting 10 at the Crusaders. Both will have the best chance to get into the AB squad alongside DMCK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭Klunk_NZ


    we will find locks and loose forwards no issue. But things get very bare in the 9/10 channel.

    I don’t rate Christie and Fakatava at all.


    Dmack will be the placeholder until we find our next 10. Centres and wings still stacked. There’s plenty to work with but I’m not expecting to beat SA in the championship next year as we usually do.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,508 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Is Zarn Sullivan more likely to play 10 or 15 in the next couple of seasons?



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,863 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    15 I would imagine.

    He's listed as full back with the blues, and hadnt played outhalf until this season's NPC.

    The blues have plenty of cover at 10 as it is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    Rassie stepping in as Springbok head coach (did he ever really step out?) while they look for a replacement for Jacques Nienaber.

    Is Eddie Jones not available? Heard he quit the Aussies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Eddie Jones will struggle to get a top appointment. He's become a farce.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    lol I was only joking. Wouldnt want him near us.

    Realistically though, who can step in to be SA head coach? Talk of Stormers coach John Dobson, but they tried that before with Alistair Coetzee and it didnt work out at all. Jake White would probably throw his name in the hat, but cant see him wanting to work under Rassie and not really being in charge. Think Peter de Villiers could be tempted out of politics to make a return...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    On a different note, idk if mentioned already, just saw a video where the Barrett brothers wouldnt shake the SA president's hand when handing out the medals. Just ignored him and walked past. He was not happy.

    Edit: but apparently its been addressed by Kolisi who said the video is taken out of context and to give the guy a break.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah, apparently it was taken out of context.

    I'd feel deeply uncomfortable with the manner in which the President involved himself centrally in the celebrations though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,348 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Almost as bad as Shane Ross hanging around like a bad smell. I mean even Rassie let the players have their moment and stayed out of it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He was the second person to lift the trophy!

    Shane Ross was bad, but this was a whole other level.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    Yous dont have much experience with african presidents lol.

    Im surprised the sports minister and his whole department werent there. If theres some credit to be taken for anything, they are there, front and centre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,046 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Political figures shouldn't be allowed near the pitch at all after finals. Fair enough being in the stand as a distinguished guest or whatever but no politician should be allowed to piggyback on any sports person's/team's achievements.

    The worst was the 2018 soccer WC. It was disgusting enough having that evil bastard Putin there for the presentation but there was also the hypocrisy of Xaha having been disciplined earlier in the tournament for a "political gesture" as sport is apolitical. WR should not be copying FIFAs way of doing things.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,508 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Why is the SA president handing out medals to the NZ players?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    I would refer you to my post 2 above yours.

    But no idea really. Macron was there, but its his country at least. Idk who the NZ prime minister is or if they were there, assume not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,613 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    People saying I was talking rubbish saying and didn't know what I was talking about, in that Ireland will bottle it, and in general, that a tri nations team will always do it. They generally do what needs to be done.

    I must know something!

    Couldn't envision how bad Australia got though, don't think anyone could



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